it's official, next year I don't upgrade till it's stable

[sporkles]

Just curious as to how methodical the rest of you are when you experience a crash?

a) do you download the latest beta and try to reproduce the crash?
b) if you're able to reproduce it, do you remove all 3rd party VST's, one by one?

Cause that's what I did recently. I had this older set that would crash after a couple of minutes - no matter what I did.
I installed a couple of successive betas, and they didn't seem to rectify the problem. I decided to go through the tracks to
see if I could find the problems, and suddenly realised that I had quite a few VST plugs in there. So I removed them, one by
one, and when I'd gotten to the last one (which was well hidden within a device chain), Live suddenly stopped crashing.

The thing is that - as far as I can tell - a buggy VST can cause crashes that aren't immediately attributable to this
particular VST. The VST in question (Amplitube) was actually just sitting there, idly, with no signal going through it or
anything.

And what do you know: Live Audio Unit and VST Status...

IK Mulitmedia synths and effects random crashes.

So the first step should always be removing all 3rd party stuff. This also prompted me to clean out my VST library, removing
all the random, free effects that I've tried but which I never use anyway, plus the ones that have been made more or less
redundant by new Ableton devices.

[Johnisfaster]

a) do you download the latest beta and try to reproduce the crash?

although I realize I should probably be more proactive in finding solutions I'm completely burned out on beta testing. I'll leave that to other people who have time to use the beta's and report bugs continuously. the process makes me feel a bit like a test rat.

[d-track]

buy Logic

[The Carpet Cleaner]

Just out of curiosity. People having issues with GFX and CPU usage, you aren't using "integrated graphics" by any chance?
Like Intel GMA950 for example.

I'm running such a system and I find its faster in most cases. But my old G5 outperforms it on the graphic side.
Live looking slower on these systems doesn't actually mean Live changed that much. Or maybe it did, with the zooming..
At any rate, I can run more tracks on this Mac Mini than I could on a dual G5.
But its also very easy to bring the mini to its knees with graphical tasks.
Maybe these half-assed graphics cards are the problem.

The new models with Nvidea GFX are better on paper. But is there anybody who has/had both who can feel a difference?

Yes.
I have the sluggishness graphic problem, and I'm on a macbook with a integrated intel GMA x1300 chip. F**k that !

[AceLuby]

Just curious as to how methodical the rest of you are when you experience a crash?

a) do you download the latest beta and try to reproduce the crash?
b) if you're able to reproduce it, do you remove all 3rd party VST's, one by one?

Cause that's what I did recently. I had this older set that would crash after a couple of minutes - no matter what I did.
I installed a couple of successive betas, and they didn't seem to rectify the problem. I decided to go through the tracks to
see if I could find the problems, and suddenly realised that I had quite a few VST plugs in there. So I removed them, one by
one, and when I'd gotten to the last one (which was well hidden within a device chain), Live suddenly stopped crashing.

The thing is that - as far as I can tell - a buggy VST can cause crashes that aren't immediately attributable to this
particular VST. The VST in question (Amplitube) was actually just sitting there, idly, with no signal going through it or
anything.

And what do you know: Live Audio Unit and VST Status...

IK Mulitmedia synths and effects random crashes.

So the first step should always be removing all 3rd party stuff. This also prompted me to clean out my VST library, removing
all the random, free effects that I've tried but which I never use anyway, plus the ones that have been made more or less
redundant by new Ableton devices.

Beta testing should be for beta testers, not for people who drop $600 on a product...

[Machinesworking]

Beta testing should be for beta testers, not for people who drop $600 on a product...

and if you marry a girl, that means she'll have sex with you any time you want....

For $600 you get the equivalent of a $15,000 studio from 10 years ago, just something to remember when slamming developers for having a hard time working with all this different code. Just as an example,

on my system:
RME audio card with MIDI drivers (2 drivers basically),
M-Audio Midisport driver,
Korg PadKontrol driver,
Kore audio/MIDI driver,
Guitar Rig Kontrol audio/MIDI driver,
Novation Remote SL Automap MIDI server.

So six MIDI drivers and three audio. This is without including the Belkin USB hub, with three hard drives, a Logic dongle, and a Logitech mouse, the eSATA driver and two external eSATA HDs.

I haven't even touched on AU/VST, but on my system Ableton have at least 11 devices that require their own drivers, Kore and Rig Kontrol use the same drivers I believe or it would be more.

Then I have at least ten different VST/AU plug in developers products in about 150 VST/AUs.

99.9% of the time if I have issues, it's due to third party code not communicating with Live well. The softeware would cost a lot more than $600 if they tested it to the point to where every configuration worked, and in some cases, there would still be issues. You can't force IK Multimedia to fix an issue that's their fault if they have a deadline on a new product coming out.

[3phase]

my crashes often hapen when i light a cigarete... and ..ist reproducable..but not on any cigarette..

But this might be not related to a bug..As an ableton official stated...its bad karma when live is crashing..

I just wonder why live 8 has such a bad karma..

[3phase]

at least the karma of live 7 is much better...

what happened? cooperation with the devils of akai?
or the peter principle in action?

[DrXparaMental]

my crashes often hapen when i light a cigarete... and ..ist reproducable..but not on any cigarette..

But this might be not related to a bug..As an ableton official stated...its bad karma when live is crashing..

I just wonder why live 8 has such a bad karma..

I thought you were just having trouble smoking and driving. Thank goodness you didn't try using a cell phone.

[crumhorn]

Just curious as to how methodical the rest of you are when you experience a crash?

a) do you download the latest beta and try to reproduce the crash?
b) if you're able to reproduce it, do you remove all 3rd party VST's, one by one?

Cause that's what I did recently. I had this older set that would crash after a couple of minutes - no matter what I did.
I installed a couple of successive betas, and they didn't seem to rectify the problem. I decided to go through the tracks to
see if I could find the problems, and suddenly realised that I had quite a few VST plugs in there. So I removed them, one by
one, and when I'd gotten to the last one (which was well hidden within a device chain), Live suddenly stopped crashing.

The thing is that - as far as I can tell - a buggy VST can cause crashes that aren't immediately attributable to this
particular VST. The VST in question (Amplitube) was actually just sitting there, idly, with no signal going through it or
anything.

And what do you know: Live Audio Unit and VST Status...

IK Mulitmedia synths and effects random crashes.

So the first step should always be removing all 3rd party stuff. This also prompted me to clean out my VST library, removing
all the random, free effects that I've tried but which I never use anyway, plus the ones that have been made more or less
redundant by new Ableton devices.

It's true Live is very reliable once you get your system up to snuff and ditch all 3rd party plugs.

As to who's code is at fault... who can say, but It's pretty annoying not being able to use various VSTs with Live when they work perfectly well in other hosts.

The IK multimedia problem has been around for ages, you would think that two software companies of the calibre of Ableton and IK would be able to get their heads together and get it sorted out.

I've now given up on ever using Live with plugins and upgraded to the suite. It's running very nicely and it's so reliable that I'm starting to get out of the habit of saving all the time. And to be honest apart from a small number of sounds I'm not missing the VSTs too much - though the EIC's grand piano is no match for Ivory.

[DrXparaMental]

Forgive me, but what the heck is a "third party plug in"? Are we talking indipendent developers like the guy in his basement, or?

[3dot...]

Beta testing should be for beta testers, not for people who drop $600 on a product...

and if you marry a girl, that means she'll have sex with you any time you want....

WHA ?
well..
who'd wanna fuck an old hag anyways..

[crumhorn]

Forgive me, but what the heck is a "third party plug in"? Are we talking indipendent developers like the guy in his basement, or?

Anything not coded by Ableton.

[DrXparaMental]

Forgive me, but what the heck is a "third party plug in"? Are we talking indipendent developers like the guy in his basement, or?

Anything not coded by Ableton.

So the second party stuff is like NI and Spectrasonics and such, correct? These being very popular so the Abes code for them when they are building their soft codes.

[Machinesworking]

Forgive me, but what the heck is a "third party plug in"? Are we talking indipendent developers like the guy in his basement, or?

Anything not coded by Ableton.

So the second party stuff is like NI and Spectrasonics and such, correct? These being very popular so the Abes code for them when they are building their soft codes.

Oddly enough you're talking about one of the few DAWs that does have second party plug ins, in the AAS embedded Suite plug ins. Other examples would be the MOTU plug ins, which are codeveloped using another companies sample engine etc. and the add on plug ins for Proppellerheads Record. For instance Operator is 'first' party, it's developed by Ableton, Collision is developed by AAS in partnership with Ableton, so it would be second party.

NI and Spectrasonics are defintily third party, no business ties to Ableton, just an interest in having thier plug ins work on the latest version, in OSX and Windows, on hundreds of different set ups with thousands of software driver, plugin combinations.