How to create phat electro house kick drums and bass

[Hell_Fire84]

Hey guys I've just recently started on the electro house genre. When I tried to make a phat bass drum sound like the one Justice have in the song (water of nazereth), my bass drum sounds weak in comparison.

I've tried to thicken it up by layering it with another kick like for example drum rack kick-909 with a sample from some website. So 2 kick drum sounds layered. Although it sounds louder now, the kick still sounds weak when combined with other sounds. So how can I make use in Ableton live 7 to make my kick drum sound phat like the ones you hear in clubs which is loud and pounding? What effects should I use like compression and how do I set them up?

Also when it comes to drum creation in Justice kinda music, do the producers make the drums sound "fuller" by layering them with other drum sounds like what I did or they sample or a little of both? Is there a good tutorial out there to get me started to understand the foundations?

One final question, how can I make the dirty bassline like the one from water of nazereth? Did they just create a syn bassline then layer it with a dirty syn lead? or they used redux from ableton on their bassline and dial the bit reduction to 2 from what I head?

Thanks a lot for your time.

[aqua_tek]

In before the flamers get you for mentioning Justice.


Anyways... good practice is to layer drums. Take an old school break, for example, chop it up into a 4X4 pattern, compress the HELL out of it. Then layer a big kick underneath. That'll fatten it up. I'm not a fan of tooting my own horn, but one of my recent tracks is a good example of this.
http://soundcloud.com/nathan-vice/natha ... ce-8-20-09

Drums are 3 layers: one HYPERcompressed oldschool break, one big kick, and a layer of hi hats/cymbals to give it some sheen.

As far as basslines go, just try layers as well, with different settings, different FX chains. Nothing too crazy. Usually 2 layers will work. Then slap on some distortion, like Overdrive, at the end to gel them all together. Sometimes you don't even need layers. Sometimes a single synth will suffice and usually the synth patch itself won't be too complex. It's all about the FX you use afterwards. Overdrive and Redux (used lightly) are good tools. Also try Saturator and play around with the wave shaper.

[logic_user99]

Tek, that tune is excellent! Nice.

[Hell_Fire84]

hey cool thanks for the quick reply and I checked your track. Good stuff!

Sorry to sound noob but how do you compress it like what setting did u use in the compressor for the attack, release and threshold could you give me an example? where can I find the oldschool break drum pattern and in general will most drum loop sound be ok to use in this context cause I got a small collection.

Also what do you mean by big kick? A kick drum which is already compressed or a raw sampled one?

Thanks again

[beats me]

These threads are adorable.

[intergalactic pedantic]

[aqua_tek]

Thanks guys, glad you like the track

hey cool thanks for the quick reply and I checked your track. Good stuff!

Sorry to sound noob but how do you compress it like what setting did u use in the compressor for the attack, release and threshold could you give me an example? where can I find the oldschool break drum pattern and in general will most drum loop sound be ok to use in this context cause I got a small collection.

Also what do you mean by big kick? A kick drum which is already compressed or a raw sampled one?

Thanks again

Just try different drum loops you can find around. Funk drum loops and rock drum loops work best. There's tons in the internetZ, music magazine CD's, etc. Chop it up into something that fits into a 4x4 track.

As far as compression is concerned, just play with the settings. You should be aiming for extremes here. Very high ratio, very low threshold. (you may want to turn off auto gain and adjust the makeup gain yourself afterwards). Play with the attack and release until you get some snap and pump into it.

Also, remember to use EQ in your favor. If there's too much going on in the bottom end, it can actually get thinned out by phase canceling. I usually high pass the compressed layer up to about 100 Hz to make room for the big kick.

And by "big kick" I mean a kick drum that's nice and round. Usually a raw 808-style kick will do. You can find samples of those as well. Or you can make one with any synth.

[nebulae]

Great track. But that picture posted above is making me hungry for fried chicken for some reason.

[Oliver Brown]

Dude that tune is mighty sick.

Serious dude, you got a banger there, really reminds me of mr flash but a bit more pounding.

I'm really interested in doing a remix of this man and I'd love to have a look at the ableton project just to see what you're doing and have a mooch if you didn't mind, I know some people get really uptight about it but I wouldn't be like stealing and releasing your shit haha.

Send me a message if you could hook me up, I totally understand if you don't wanna but fucking awesome tune all the same.

PEACE

P.S. Sorry for thread jacking...

[john gordon]

In before the flamers get you for mentioning Justice.


Anyways... good practice is to layer drums. Take an old school break, for example, chop it up into a 4X4 pattern, compress the HELL out of it. Then layer a big kick underneath. That'll fatten it up. I'm not a fan of tooting my own horn, but one of my recent tracks is a good example of this.
http://soundcloud.com/nathan-vice/natha ... ce-8-20-09

Drums are 3 layers: one HYPERcompressed oldschool break, one big kick, and a layer of hi hats/cymbals to give it some sheen.

As far as basslines go, just try layers as well, with different settings, different FX chains. Nothing too crazy. Usually 2 layers will work. Then slap on some distortion, like Overdrive, at the end to gel them all together. Sometimes you don't even need layers. Sometimes a single synth will suffice and usually the synth patch itself won't be too complex. It's all about the FX you use afterwards. Overdrive and Redux (used lightly) are good tools. Also try Saturator and play around with the wave shaper.

great fukin tune.what a tune.

[logic_user99]

Oh! WANT ONE!

[Hell_Fire84]

I tried working on a bass drum today with your ideas aqua_tek and in regards to compression I'm just curious is it generally:

1. Increasing the attack to make the B.Drum bassier? eg 30-100ms
2. Decreasing the attack to make it sound punicher? eg 1-5 ms
3. What about the release and does it follow the same philosophy of shorter release to get punchier sound and longer release to get bassier sound?
4. For me to achieve an electro house music kinda B.drum should I go for a fast attack and fast release kinda compression like
- attack 1-5ms
- release 10 - 20ms

I read that to go for the sound I want, I need to compress it, EQ it then side chain it. Can you guys please shed some light in this because what I did was under the compression software in Ableton, I just turned on the EQ and chose 250hz to make it sound less bassy so it can sit in the mix with my bass and Q at 1.00 I'm just curious if what I did is on the right track. Also is it true that B.drum EQ shouldn't go below 80hz cause that will clash with my bass frequencies. Thanks

[leedsquietman]

there are no magic EQ settings - you have to listen and adjust, it will be different for every track.

Other ways to make a kick stand out - throw it through an amp sim, or add saturation or mild distortion - sidechain the bass from the kick drum - change the kick sound to something that cuts through better.

You need good monitors to determine what and where to EQ/Compress etc.

Usually you are going to be short attack 1-2ms, high ratio is anything greater than 4:1, (sometimes a limiter even works well), the release time you will have to play with, get it right and it breathes with the music, get it wrong and it will pump out of time. This won't work in every case, it is dependent on the program material i.e. sounds/samples etc.

You should consider getting some good reading material on mixing and esp. mixing for dance music - getting good kick/bass seperation and retaining punch is one of the hardest skills to pull off.

[Jekblad]

make sure you pan your HUGE KICKS all the way to the left or they won't stand right in the mix.

also www.tomcosm.com sign up
and www.nickstutorials.com buy one
...and www.musicsoftwaretraining.com get some

they are all cheap choose one and make it happen it'll get you where you want to go a lot faster than reading text here. they are not all dance genre specific per say, but still great stuff.

[Hell_Fire84]

Hey guys thanks for all the help. I've been busy making my track and now that its done, I like to share with you guys and ask for your opinion on my mix and my kicks. The track is called Play Time and hope you guys like it ciao.

User name is Hell_Fire in soundcloud

http://soundcloud.com/you/tracks