OT: A system that would replace money

[H20nly]

Just because your idea makes total sense don't think for a moment that the powers that be (aka those who loose the most) will stand idly by and applaud your success. I think that's what Angstrom and his dad found out.

Some men will send other men to die just to hide their dirty secrets and protect their greed. They won't send their friends. They won't send their family. They don't care about everybody else... so that's exactly who they'll sacrifice.

That Bartertown sign on page 1 of the thread from Mad Max BTD... that's what the world would have to look like for our "leaders" to support barter as the currency of the realm.

[Grappadura]

Well my idea is to release an application that works a bit like emule, with some differences:

The application is freely downloadable for everybody. Everybody can create his personal account, and link himself to those he knows. At some point, this group will collide with another group of users. Then the network becomes larger.

The whole idea is that you know who you´re dealing with, like in a small village of medieval times. So everybody can have his own settings as to how large your network should be.

[beats me]

Wow Angstrom, that was exactly what I was afraid of - that they would come after me.

But I thought about the government as well. They could be part of this system, they could get vm (virtual money) for what they do in the community.

As you see by Angstroms post, this thing does work. And you got several benefits:

The money stays in your social system. Your social system benefits from your work, as well as you benefit from theirs.

There is no recession, because once you got a closed business-circle, you just keep on trading no matter whats going on in the outside world. You (and yours) become autonomous.

There are no banks - all the virtual money represents real services and goods. Unlike in the real world, where the states and the bank produce money out of air, until the managers can buy their luxury goods. When you take a credit, you take it from the money that has been generated and represents real value.

What I like best is that only your friends and family benefit from your work, no multinational superrich guys involved.

I think you need to go through each room of your house and take anything you own that's made by a corporation, load it into a box van, and then push that van off a cliff.

I'd say post your results and what you have left but seeing as your computer will be part of that mangled heap this won't be possible.

[gjm]

Bartercard

[Grappadura]

Wow Angstrom, that was exactly what I was afraid of - that they would come after me.

But I thought about the government as well. They could be part of this system, they could get vm (virtual money) for what they do in the community.

As you see by Angstroms post, this thing does work. And you got several benefits:

The money stays in your social system. Your social system benefits from your work, as well as you benefit from theirs.

There is no recession, because once you got a closed business-circle, you just keep on trading no matter whats going on in the outside world. You (and yours) become autonomous.

There are no banks - all the virtual money represents real services and goods. Unlike in the real world, where the states and the bank produce money out of air, until the managers can buy their luxury goods. When you take a credit, you take it from the money that has been generated and represents real value.

What I like best is that only your friends and family benefit from your work, no multinational superrich guys involved.

I think you need to go through each room of your house and take anything you own that's made by a corporation, load it into a box van, and then push that van off a cliff.

I'd say post your results and what you have left but seeing as your computer will be part of that mangled heap this won't be possible.

A corporation is just a group of people, theres room for that in the system. I would simply buy products from those corporations that my people benefit most from.

Corporations are not an enemy in itself. The problem is just the overpayment of managers and shareholders. On the long term this could be leveled out, because companies would also benefit from being in such a system. They might raise payment of ordinary workers just to show that the people who work there largely benefit from the output.

[Grappadura]

Bartercard

hey man thx for the research! I´m looking into it.

[Grappadura]

from bartercard:

A restaurant wishes to "barter" for $10,000 worth of printing using meals and drinks. No printer would ever want $10,000 in meals from the one restaurant, however by selecting a Bartercard printer, the restaurateur pays the printer with T$10,000 Trade Dollars. The printer’s account is "credited" and the restaurateur’s account "debited", so the restaurant now owes T$10,000 in meals to the Bartercard network, NOT the printer. This is repaid as various Bartercard members come to the restaurant (new business) over the following months. Hence, the restaurant has paid for its printing requirements with meals, using an interest-free "line of credit" and at a cost of approximately 30 - 40 cents in the dollar, in replacement good cost.

The printer can now use the Trade Dollars earned to buy office furniture, advertising, car repairs, stationery, courier services, colour separations, accounting and legal services ~ even a family holiday. These are all commodities for which the printer would normally pay cash. By using their Bartercard Trade Dollars, the printer conserves his cash and benefits from the extra business.

Thats just about what I want to do, but I dont want to charge anybody for being in the system. The system has to be independent from an organization. Everyone would run the system by themselves.

[H20nly]

good luck.

[Grappadura]

good luck.

I need some hackers to do the job...

[adventurepants_]

Without banks, where does venture capital come from?

Without venture capital, where does the money for mineral exploration, and research and development come from?

I love the idea of small scale bartering, but it would mean a return to a pre technological society.

[Grappadura]

Without banks, where does venture capital come from?

Without venture capital, where does the money for mineral exploration, and research and development come from?

I love the idea of small scale bartering, but it would mean a return to a pre technological society.

Not at all. What you describe as capital is just an incentive to be productive. If people believe in your ideas they will support you (=venture capital). And you will have more success explaining your projects to friends than to the banks.

[Grappadura]

Actually, I think this system will create stronger synergys than the current one. One of the reasons is that it does totally encourage you to be independent. Another is that the people will be able to dispose unnecessary intermediates, because they will know each other better. Meaning this trading system will bring the people generally more together, because, like in medieval times, they will know who is behind a certain product. And just as it is possible in todays society to build amazing things by joining forces, it is just as well possible to keep people informed about it. And information is a selling argument.

[Tone Deft]

so young and trusting...

deregulation is what got us into this mess to begin with.

[Grappadura]

Unfortunatly not so young anymore...

I´m not talking about regulation anyway.

Now if I:

1. gathered a crowd of IT guys to develop a sense making plattform like ebay (which is a plattform where the people care about their reputation - and they dont even know each other!)
2. And I put this as a free download in the internets. It works like emule.

what would stop the change?

I´ve been discussing this with others and there hasn´t been any contradictory evidence. Angstroms post shows that this basically works. Ah and the barter card.

[Grappadura]

will you guys take it from here plz?