OT: A system that would replace money

[SubFunk]

yeah count me in,

i offer mix downs for a bottle of 1999 vintage veuve cliquot each.

mastering for a gram of charly per track.

and sharing in depth knowledge is to be negotiated between 2 - 3 hookers per night.

Well you didn´t quite get it yet as I see from your statement. But you would be able to offer exactly those services that you mentioned right there. And maybe there will be some hooker offering her services for the same amount. So you get what you want.

i totally get it, 'maybe' hey? wake up!

but whatever.

[Grappadura]

A big problem with the idea is that you are still living in a society functioning under the current monetary system. At best you can carve out a temporary bubble for yourself, but the surrounding world will still engage in inflationary policy which will affect you (unless you are going without petroleum?), unnecessary and immoral wars paid for with fiat currency, and the creeping approach of totalitarian government which will most certainly not appreciate utopian alternative monetary systems.

I think it would be far better to use all of that energy in fighting to change the current monetary policy of fiat currency and central banking.

How close minded. The more people participate, the more it takes over the monetary system. But all transactions and currencys become safer in the process. So there is no economic breakdown, there is only a breakdown of the central bank, but by that time everybody is already safe and can be in the new system.

[Grappadura]

yeah count me in,

i offer mix downs for a bottle of 1999 vintage veuve cliquot each.

mastering for a gram of charly per track.

and sharing in depth knowledge is to be negotiated between 2 - 3 hookers per night.

Well you didn´t quite get it yet as I see from your statement. But you would be able to offer exactly those services that you mentioned right there. And maybe there will be some hooker offering her services for the same amount. So you get what you want.

i totally get it, 'maybe' hey? wake up!

but whatever.

I edited my last statement, about the misunderstanding that I think you have. But maybe you dont, its just formulated in a way that you think you have to find a perfect match for trading. like mastering against wine. you master for money, and from the money you buy the vine. Just as in the normal world.

[SubFunk]

Yes. and an excact amount and quality of vine on top of it.

[q.musgrove]

I see no problems with a business alternative. You wouldn't even have to marry it right!? so I'd give it a try.




unless this is a trick to sniff out all the reds...

if that's the case.

U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.

[Grappadura]

Ok again my case study:

Peter offers to mow the lawn for 10 Dollar an hour. Currently he has no clients. He downloads this program and tells his friends about it. John and Jane like the idea and join the network. Jane offers a hair cut, John offers bread.

John lets Peter mow the lawn. This transaction is saved by mutual agreement in the system. The output of the transaction is a virtual 10 dollar bill that says on it: Issued to Peter on behalf of John for mowing the lawn.

Now Peter has some money and he can go spend it. He will see what services can be purchased with his dollars. He puts the money in a haircut. He will pay with the money that he has. Now Jane has the money, and this is documented in the system.

She decides to spend it on a CD. The CD store guy will now know that this money was originated from lawn mowing, only one trading station away from him. Maybe he needs his lawn cut too? So he calls the lawnmower, and hands him over the 10 dollar bill with his name on it.

At this point the business circle is closed. Everybody was able to generate values in their favor.

The bookkeeping of this system, that works backend, ensures that exactly that same money that you put into the system comes back to you in one way or another. In the example, there could have been many more stations in between. Maybe the money had to split up in different directions. but as soon as you earn money, the system will trace and close the business circle if possible. And the more people are in this thing, the faster and easier you can close this circle.

Is this understandable? Please tell me where it fails.

[q.musgrove]

can you shop with your virtual money. like what if the cd vendor looked at where the money came from and decided that he didn't thing a lawn service was worth a cd but two lawn services could be, or he could take the plumbers service. I mean to ask what decides the overall value of your work. the system or the people?

[Grappadura]

can you shop with your virtual money. like what if the cd vendor looked at where the money came from and decided that he didn't thing a lawn service was worth a cd but two lawn services could be, or he could take the plumbers service. I mean to ask what decides the overall value of your work. the system or the people?

Yes you can shop with the virtual money, at the stores that are in the system. You take whatever value you agree on for your services - its all a matter of demand. The values you take for a starting point are exactly the same values of the current monetary system.

[Grappadura]

I see no problems with a business alternative. You wouldn't even have to marry it right!? so I'd give it a try.




unless this is a trick to sniff out all the reds...

if that's the case.

U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.
U.S.A.

There is no trick involved, everybody sets up his own network, nobody is governing the system.

There also could be a really positive aspect to this way of handling money: The overall generated value could be counted. While the money circulates, it continually generates value, which is usually not represented in a monetary system. Here you could make it count.

[3dot...]

the reds are gone...that's one experiment that failed aswell...
I'm guessing the answer lye somewheres inbetween pure marxism and filthy capitalism...
we'll calibrate ourselves or kill ourselves trying
I'll let the smart people figure out the boring details...

[q.musgrove]

careful now, if you don't pay attention those details will probably turn out consequences that take advantage of you, or undermine your demands for the things in life you deem to be quality.

[H20nly]

I still want to know how you propose to stop corruption:

I need a haircut. I mow your lawn. you have ____ amount entered (this is where I see the problem) in the system.

If the virtual dollar amounts have to be managed then someone will eventually manage to help more of it into their own pocket. Call me pessimistic. I see people everywhere all the time trying to get over. Your system is based on a great idea that is dependent upon complete honesty - something that mankind is hardly capable of as proven through the millennia by more than one creed or group of people's oral or written history. Time and and time again corruption sets in.

It a dynasty model:
- first generation - righteous, upright, pious
- second generation - admires the first for accomplishments, accepting, grateful
- third generation - dis attached, expects more, does less, self righteous, jealous, over privileged
- fourth generation - chaos

ebay at first, cool. ebay now... not so much.

[Grappadura]

I still want to know how you propose to stop corruption:

I need a haircut. I mow your lawn. you have ____ amount entered (this is where I see the problem) in the system.

If the virtual dollar amounts have to be managed then someone will eventually manage to help more of it into their own pocket. Call me pessimistic. I see people everywhere all the time trying to get over. Your system is based on a great idea that is dependent upon complete honesty - something that mankind is hardly capable of as proven through the millennia by more than one creed or group of people's oral or written history. Time and and time again corruption sets in.

It a dynasty model:
- first generation - righteous, upright, pious
- second generation - admires the first for accomplishments, accepting, grateful
- third generation - dis attached, expects more, does less, self righteous, jealous, over privileged
- fourth generation - chaos

ebay at first, cool. ebay now... not so much.

Yeah, I gave it some more thought: Money needs to be (also) debt. If it is not paid back in a reasonable time, you could be suspended from the system, that is, of each user individually. Until you pay what you´ve issued you are disclosed from the system. If the system is profitable enough, people will try not to get suspended.

But if people manage money in this system, you will see where it goes. If it goes all in the pockets of the managers, you wont want to support the company anymore.

Now if a whole company is involved, the company would pay their employees also virtual money. That way you could see just how much you are paying to each employee. And since transparency is a selling argument, clever companies will make it transparent.

[H20nly]

The other scenario I see is where someone comes along and says I don't have nothin... let me pretend to have something and get paid...

or I have a little something I have proved to you that I'm trustworthy... then they take a lot all at once and cash out. now the rest of the system is left holding the bag.

...kind of the same way that the price we pay for retail products is raised by too many of those products being stolen or broken and returned.

Another real life example: my insurance goes up if too many people that drive Hondas get their car stolen or get in accidents.

its the model where business passes certain costs off to the consumers, but that has to be checked when you start bringing those who "check" in because then you open up avenues of potential flaw and/or corruption.

I want it to work Grappadura I really do, but...

[Grappadura]

The other scenario I see is where someone comes along and says I don't have nothin... let me pretend to have something and get paid...

In this scenario the money is originated. A debt is issued. If the debitor does not generate any value ever, he is disclosed of the business circle. He cant profit anymore of the system until he pays his debt by generating some value.

or I have a little something I have proved to you that I'm trustworthy... then they take a lot all at once and cash out. now the rest of the system is left holding the bag.

Again, system disclosure. And since the system is also a social system, the thief will be out of his social circle. Thats pretty harsh. Also, no profits anymore from the system. Works on ebay, and should work here even better because of the social boundaries.

...kind of the same way that the price we pay for retail products is raised by too many of those products being stolen or broken and returned.

Thats ok, this system can live with it, the other can as well.

Another real life example: my insurance goes up if too many people that drive Hondas get their car stolen or get in accidents.

Same in this system, but, since your business network is also your social network, you might be able to rely a bit more on the security that it provides, instead of going for institutional help. Together with friends you could build up your own social security system if you wanted. But it can be parallel as well.

its the model where business passes certain costs off to the consumers, but that has to be checked when you start bringing those who "check" in because then you open up avenues of potential flaw and/or corruption.

costs always are passed on to the consumer. If not, it would not be profitable. Same here and there.

I want it to work Grappadura I really do, but...

Get me a bunch of hackers that will do the job. PLZ