So is there any progress on the loudness front?

[håkan bråkan]

I've been mastering some tracks for friends and myself the last weeks and when I match to other recordings, they are often mastered hot as hell. For example Butter with Hudson Mohawke and Vitalics new album. If I play Vitalic bit to bit to my d/a converter I get audible distorsion as well.

So I wonder if there is any progress here, what do you do, do you master or release as loud as everyone else? I think the artist can have their say, or does the label have some kind of veto? I mean, there has to be some movement of critical mass that are willing to change the situation. From the things I have read a lot of producers blame the artists, at least that started the whole loudness thing. Actually I don't see the meaning to buy tracks that are destroyed by mastering, I have to start rip music from movies

There are som pretty good info on the subject here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Why don't use the same standard as dolby digital (-20 dBFS), those who want really want compressed dynamics can have it then as well, just that listeners won't need to change the volume control when switching from movies to techno, and to ambient recordings or whatever.

[SubFunk]

i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.

for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...

[josephjobling]

ahh the loundness wars - alive and well. i am a fan of "quiter" non distorted music with lots of dynamic range nyself - i palyed N.E.R.D's fly or die the other day and it broke my heart when it started to ditort

[håkan bråkan]

i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.

for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...

But you don't want to sit on the knob the whole day and tweak, and you don't want to blow your years when you change track either. There exists some software and receivers that can control the volume to some extent, but then the implementation is quite bad on portable players. I mean, come on, most tracks are not really mastered that high for the quality of the sound? If you compare the same track mastered with nice dynamics and played at the same sound pressure as a track mastered with 'todays levels' you will think of it as a 128kbit mp3 in comparison.

[håkan bråkan]

It's like the CO2 emissions, nobody wants to be the first one to change, there has to be political regulations , or some standard that everyone has to follow.

[SubFunk]

i don't care at all about how loud a track is, only about how good the sound and production is.

for the volume there is a big knob on the system and or a gain, etc...

But you don't want to sit on the knob the whole day and tweak, and you don't want to blow your years when you change track either. There exists some software and receivers that can control the volume to some extent, but then the implementation is quite bad on portable players. I mean, come on, most tracks are not really mastered that high for the quality of the sound? If you compare the same track mastered with nice dynamics and played at the same sound pressure as a track mastered with 'todays levels' you will think of it as a 128kbit mp3 in comparison.

no, all i care about levels is that they are the same within one project, e.g. an EP or LP and for that i bring all volumes down to the weakest track... not the other way around and levels in comparison towards other 'commercial' tracks i don't give a flying F.

[SubFunk]

It's like the CO2 emissions, nobody wants to be the first one to change, there has to be political regulations , or some standard that everyone has to follow.

nonsense you need to start, regulations

oh my.

[Sage]

Why do people go on about regulating music?

It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...

If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.

[håkan bråkan]

Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...

[Sage]

Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...

Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.

Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.

[håkan bråkan]

Why do people go on about regulating music?

It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...

If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.

What I mean is that not all music can be mastered at -3 dB RMS and sound good, but people do it anyway. It's like painting the most beautiful art on a canvas and hang it inside out on the wall.

[SubFunk]

Why do people go on about regulating music?

It's an art form! Manipulating and distorting sounds has been standard practise since tape was invented. You don't ever listen to a snare drum from 3 inches away, so why stick a mic there, as well as one underneath... that's natural as well... but people only question what goes on in music when the dynamics go...

If regulations were put in place, I'd master everything at -3dB RMS.

What I mean is that not all music can be mastered at -3 dB RMS and sound good, but people do it anyway. It's like painting the most beautiful art on a canvas and hang it inside out on the wall.

he what has volume to do with sound quality? nothing absolute nothing, it is perceived as 'better' from the human ear / brain
but that's the trouble, everything is so loud our days that we are used to it and automatically feel anything with lower volumes is not as good sounding, we lost the ability to listen properly.

that is why i hate the loudness war and of course dynamics are slammed to death... it's destroying opposed to 'it let's music shine'

[håkan bråkan]

Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...

Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.

Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.

So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthy

[SubFunk]

Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...

Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.

Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.

So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthy

as you would manage to listen to so many tracks a day, but yeah i don't care to adjust for every single track i listen to at home and when i DJ i use the gain. simple.

[josephjobling]

Haha, but I mean there are standards for impedance and speakers and stuff, not so dramatic to have some sensible standard for the digital signal, it's far from optimal from an engineering point of view the way it behaves today. All movies are mastered at a calibrated level, we don't need to reinvent the wheel...

Digital does have a standard - No louder than 0dB.

Films are being played in cinemas and I can't imagine they want to be messing around with volumes between films.

So as a listener with 10 000 tracks I want to sit and mess with that volume knob all day along? It's good with some debate here, probably healthy

I'd rather be able to turn up a quit song than have to turn down a loud one because it's distorting .