Using buses to dj like Deadmau5?

[Samelot]

The way i dj with ableton live is using 2 channels and having them outputted from my firebox into my mixer (ex: Ch1 ableton outputs 3/4 --> Mixer Ch1,
Ch2 ableton outputs 5/6 --> Mixer Ch2). The problem for me occurs when i try to add effects (excluding send effects). If i put a really sweet ping pong delay and assign it to midi on Ch1, i would only be able to use it on Ch1 and not Ch2 as well. Also, when i add another effect to the channel in hopes to be able to switch between the two effects individually things just get more complicated.

Anyway... I'm pretty sure the setup that deadmau5 has in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to9zMVlyrV8 provides a way around this, but the video quality is bad and he doesn't really explain how he does it step by step. He starts talking about how he buses it out around 4:00.

[keyboardcowb0y]

Basically what I understand from the video is this....

#1. On the left site of his set he has 4 Audio Tracks. These 4 tracks represent the 4 channels on the 4D. They have their levels set to full so that the hardware in the 4D can do the mixing instead of using Ableton. These 4 audio tracks dont have any actual songs or sounds in them, rather they just have audio sent to them. The first 2 audio tracks that act as 1 and 2 on the 4D handle all of his full tracks he wants to play. Each of these 4 tracks just sends directly to the mixer.

#2. As you see in the video he then has 2 Audio Tracks full of songs which he uses for just regular mixing. He routes the audio from these tracks into the 1 and 2 of the first set of audio tracks mentioned in #1. That in turn, sends them out to the mixer.

#3. He then has his audio track which he uses for creating loops on the fly by dragging clips from the tracks in #2. Much like the clips in #2, this whole audio track is just sending its audio to the 3rd track in #1 which is going to the mixer.

#4. He then has a group of tracks that are all combined and sent to the 4th audio track in #1. He basically has about 5 or 6 or 7 audio tracks set up in ableton that are controlled by midi/osc. The tracks consists of just oneshot beats, synths, drums, kicks, and stuff from his monome I believe. Using the midi functions in the 4D and the controls from the lemur he is triggering and changing the levels for these 6 or 7 tracks in software. Each of these tracks gets combined in software by routing them all to his compressor channel, which then gets sent the 4th audio track mentioned in #1. Then that entire combined track is sent to the mixer where it can be controlled by the one analog fader.

#5. As far as the effects go, my best guess is that he has some effects set up in those 4 output audio tracks mentioned in #1 which are controlled by the 4D and lemur. He mentioned using buffer repeats and stuff like that with the lemur, this is all done in the software. Deadmau5 also uses and EFX-1000 (i think) for effects, so that would all be done between the 4D and the EFX-1000 and not involving ableton.

So thats just my best guess going by the video. Basically he creates the 4 initial channels in Live to emulate the layout of the mixer and to separate effects from the actual tracks themselves. I like this idea of creating a layout to match your mixer for multiple reasons, but like everyone says, it all comes down to personal preference. There is also a lot of helpful information in that video regarding getting the best sound quality out of live productions, and that will all make more sense as you get more experience with ableton.

Hope that all made sense

[aeon_flux]

The way i dj with ableton live is using 2 channels and having them outputted from my firebox into my mixer (ex: Ch1 ableton outputs 3/4 --> Mixer Ch1,
Ch2 ableton outputs 5/6 --> Mixer Ch2). The problem for me occurs when i try to add effects (excluding send effects). If i put a really sweet ping pong delay and assign it to midi on Ch1, i would only be able to use it on Ch1 and not Ch2 as well. Also, when i add another effect to the channel in hopes to be able to switch between the two effects individually things just get more complicated.

if you are using two channels of your mixer you have to duplicate effect on each channel, for example: put eq3 on 3/4 and 5/6, delay on 3/4 and 5/6 etc. if you want to use send/returns instead, you have to use another mixer channel for this (so two channel mixer is not enough). in that scenario you can redirect returns to, let's say, 1/2 instead of ableton master and put it into 3rd channel on real mixer.

[Samelot]

Alright, so after hours and hours of messing around with buses in ableton, I think i have come up with a solution to port 2 channels in ableton through 1 fx channel and back out to two separate channels. I just want to check with you guys first to make sure there isn't a much more simple way to do this... I'll post images in a bit, im in a rush to class

- I have channel 1 and 2 with tracks on them. Their audio will be going to "Ext Out. 3/4" and "Ext Out. 4/5".
- I have a return channel with a ping pong delay on it. For the output, I selected "Sends Only".
- I have channel 3 and channel 4 both receiving from my return channel with the ping pong delay and having "monitor in".
- Audio 3 has "B" selected for the cross fader and "Ext Out 3/4"
- Audio 4 has "A" selected for the cross fader. and "Eex Out 5/6"
- Return track "A" is set to "Pre"

Now the trick to this is to have a lot of ableton parameters mapped to one midi controller ("THE KNOB").

1. I have "Send A" on channel 1 mapped to "THE KNOB" on my UC-33.
2. I have "Track Volume" on channel 1 mapped to "THE KNOB".
3. I have "Send A" on channel 2 mapped to "THE KNOB".
4. I have "Track Volume" on channel 2 mapped to "THE KNOB".
5. I have "The Cross Fader" mapped to "THE KNOB"

VERY IMPORTANT. This is how i have all the "THE KNOB" parameters configured in relation to each other.

When "THE KNOB" is panned all the way to the left:

- "Send A" on channel 1 is turned up all the way
- "Track Volume" on channel 1 is turned down all the way
- "Send A" on channel 2 is turned down all the way
- "Track Volume" on channel 2 is turned up all the way
- "Cross Fader" is panned all the way to the left

And vice versa. When "THE KNOB" is panned all the way to the right:

- "Send A" on channel 1 is turned down all the way
- "Track Volume" on channel 1 is turned up all the way
- "Send A" on channel 2 is turned up all the way
- "Track Volume" on channel 2 is turned down all the way
- "Cross Fader" is panned all the way to the right

Now when one channel is sending through to the effects return, the other channel is going out normally. THE KNOB lets me switch between what channels are being sent through the effects.

I figured out how to have a switch to give me the option to have both channels outputted with out the fx to seperate channels, but I still have yet to make a switch to make both channels go through the fx and back out to seperate channels.

Let me know what you guys think

[aeon_flux]

hmm. routing puzzle. i recreated it in live cause it was to hard to imagine that. i'm not sure if it really mimics real return behaviour.
as i understand in normal return situation what you have on master is real track sound and portion of wet sound sent by return track (also to master).

what you have done is just sharing one effect on multiple tracks but in final master of your real mixer (not live) you have only wet sound after applying effect, right?

[Samelot]

yea its just a 100% wet effect

[aeon_flux]

yea its just a 100% wet effect

that's pity. i recreated it with hope that i solve my problem - i do not want to sacrifice one track of my 4-channel mixer just for returns as i discovered recently that even 4-ch without sacrifice is not enough

[najrock]

does that set up seem retarded complicated to anyone else?

[Samelot]

I'm actually modified it a bit, but its still pretty confusing and i cant get it to do exactly what i want. I'm very open to suggestions. I just need a way to figure out to get 2 channels through fx and back out to 2 channels

[davepermen]

not really possible except when doing it on both channels individually

else, it wouldn't work if you use the same effect on both channels, how should it split the data later again?

[yur2die4]

Your main problem is the utilization of the mixer. Since you intend to use both EQable channels for mixing tracks you Must find some alternate thru for your Send fx. Something that allows you to sum up both the mixer's output and your FX Output.

Your options are:

1. See if the equipment at the establishments you play at have more than one stereo input. Then your mixer can go into one set of channels, and then your firebox can send the fx out to the other.

2. Find a cheap box that will take the 2 outs of your mixer and the 2 outs of your firebox and blend them.

3. Unfortunately I assume that if your model of mixer has a Mic input, it would be mono.. i don't think that mono is reasonable with the quality of fx these days (i mean, ping pong delay minus the ping pong? ick).

If we knew what model of mixer you had, perhaps we could get a better idea of what you are dealing with.

[Samelot]

So would i be able to do option 1 with a Presonus firebox and a xone 32 mixer?

[aeon_flux]

So would i be able to do option 1 with a Presonus firebox and a xone 32 mixer?

if you have three pairs of output you should be. i can't see fader assigment on channels but i checked user guide and channel 1 is routed to left by default, channel 3 to right side and channel 2 is not routed to crossfader. so you should be able to redirect sends on separate pair and feed them into channel 2 on xone:32

[yur2die4]

I find it interesting that you have an aux send. Have you ever used it before?

[tmcmahon2]

does that set up seem retarded complicated to anyone else?

Yes, but we are discussing Deadmau5 afterall...