HELP! I'm a Girl!

[ethios4]

So, what happens if a woman is "liberated" and free from male-dominated society-imposed thought patterns, and chooses to title a post "HELP! I'm a Girl!" of her own free volition, and then is told what she should and shouldn't do as a woman......is that any better than being told by a man what she should or shouldn't do?

That's not a rhetorical question, btw. Reason I ask is that I've seen it many times, a woman being force-fed an ideology by being told what kind of woman she should or shouldn't be, by people who are claiming to be all about liberation. It reminds me of one country "forcing" democracy on another, and then getting pissed when that country's people elect a "dictator". What then?

[siddhu]

So, what happens if a woman is "liberated" and free from male-dominated society-imposed thought patterns, and chooses to title a post "HELP! I'm a Girl!" of her own free volition, and then is told what she should and shouldn't do as a woman......is that any better than being told by a man what she should or shouldn't do?

That's not a rhetorical question, btw. Reason I ask is that I've seen it many times, a woman being force-fed an ideology by being told what kind of woman she should or shouldn't be, by people who are claiming to be all about liberation. It reminds me of one country "forcing" democracy on another, and then getting pissed when that country's people elect a "dictator". What then?

Good point!!!

[djshiva]

So, what happens if a woman is "liberated" and free from male-dominated society-imposed thought patterns, and chooses to title a post "HELP! I'm a Girl!" of her own free volition, and then is told what she should and shouldn't do as a woman......is that any better than being told by a man what she should or shouldn't do?

That's not a rhetorical question, btw. Reason I ask is that I've seen it many times, a woman being force-fed an ideology by being told what kind of woman she should or shouldn't be, by people who are claiming to be all about liberation. It reminds me of one country "forcing" democracy on another, and then getting pissed when that country's people elect a "dictator". What then?

i won't try to tell a woman who she should be (i think the thread starter's comments where meant to be sarcastic, but the sarcasm got lost in the subsequent flood of idiocy and girlbutt pics), but the fact is that in a male-dominated field like music or IT or anything else, each woman's actions are never interpreted as representing only her. they are always subconsciously interpreted as representative of ALL women.

hence things like (and i am quoting things i have heard time and time again) "i saw this girl dj the other night and she trainwrecked the whole set. figures. women djs suck." "women drivers suck (even though our insurance rates are always cheaper..hmmm)". "you play guitar? and you're a GIRL?!?!" i am not saying ALL guys say that, but far too many do.

to me, feminism means women should be able to be who they are, without boundaries, but the boundaries are ALWAYS there, because sexism still runs deep in everything we do. so it's difficult (nigh impossible) to take that out of the equation.

women are NEVER totally free from "male-dominated society-imposed thought patterns". men haven't managed to free themselves from it, so it would be damn difficult for those on the shit end of the stick to drag themselves out from under it when it permeates EVERYTHING. the patriarchy is powerful and entrenched, and it takes CONSTANT analysis of one's own thoughts and actions (whether you are male or female or somewhere in between) to catch it in action. it's internalized in all of us at this point. scroll up through this topic if you think i am exaggerating. this whole thread speaks for itself.

if this thread begets a good discussion, then cool. more analysis, less idiocy is a good thing all around. typically my bringing up these topics results in a bunch of guys telling me that i don't know what i am talking about and that sexism doesn't exist (easier to say when you are not the one on the receiving end of it). i hope my ableton bros are a tad more enlightened... so i throw this out to the universe in hopes of more discussion and understanding, and fewer fat girl pics.

[smutek]

instead you got a bunch of pasty white boys who never see the sun wanting to climb all over you.

HEH!

I see the sun, it's there just outside my window pretty much every day.

Shiva, for some reason it seems you have become my new hero!



Perhaps one day the wife and I will drive out there and listen to you play.

[djshiva]

instead you got a bunch of pasty white boys who never see the sun wanting to climb all over you.

HEH!

I see the sun, it's there just outside my window pretty much every day.

it looks purty out there don't it? shit, i bet if i opened my blinds i could see it too!!!

Shiva, for some reason it seems you have become my new hero! :p

oh silly boy! don't you know women aren't allowed to be heroes? we're the ones who stand around and scream until some knight in shining armour comes and tells us how to plug in the MIDI cables?

Perhaps one day the wife and I will drive out there and listen to you play.

how far are you from pittsburgh? i am playing there june 10. and hopefully i will be coming back to philly soon, which i imagine is a bit closer to you. would love to meet more of the ableton boys. of course, i would have to kill you and eat you, because i am a man-hating feminist lesbian after all...tell your wife i'm sorry, but it was on today's gay agenda.

[D DAS]

dj shiva, why do you despise girl butt pictures oh so much? that is like despising a beautiful sunset or two blue birds happily building a nest. a nice bum is one of the great fruits of life. learn to love the butt, let the butt into your life and be one with the butt. smell the butt, taste the butt, become the butt and you will unlock the deepest secrets of the universe.

it reminds me of the old zen saying

breath deep, be in every moment, breath deep, be in every butt

[Sales Dude McBoob]

I sense some "I'm a Girl" zen haiku on the horizon...

[djshiva]

dj shiva, why do you despise girl butt pictures oh so much? that is like despising a beautiful sunset or two blue birds happily building a nest. a nice bum is one of the great fruits of life. learn to love the butt, let the butt into your life and be one with the butt. smell the butt, taste the butt, become the butt and you will unlock the deepest secrets of the universe.

it reminds me of the old zen saying

breath deep, be in every moment, breath deep, be in every butt

i love the butt. i despise the objectification of the person possessing the butt.

bodies are beautiful, no doubt about it. but when women throughout history have been reduced to simply their body parts and their usefulness (whether sexual, political or commercial), it twists that beauty into something different.

[smutek]

how far are you from pittsburgh? i am playing there june 10. and hopefully i will be coming back to philly soon, which i imagine is a bit closer to you. would love to meet more of the ableton boys. of course, i would have to kill you and eat you, because i am a man-hating feminist lesbian after all...tell your wife i'm sorry, but it was on today's gay agenda.

lmao!

Philly would be a better bet for us, but keep me posted. We have been itching for a road trip lately. When my wife asks where we are heading I will tell her we are going to see a man eating feminist lesbian play techno on three decks while smoking a pack of camel lites! (I think its that picture that made you my hero... lol... thats just too cool of a picture...)

My wife is pretty easing going, I'm sure she wont mind the trip, provided you don't kill and eat me ofcourse.

[ethios4]

if this thread begets a good discussion, then cool. more analysis, less idiocy is a good thing all around.

Word up!

The more people of all genders, races, ages, and classes wake up, the better off we'll all be. I was not directing my comments at you, or anyone in particular, by the way. From my own experience in these matters, it's easy to lose perspective and end up furthering enslavement of one form or another without meaning to....the way is very subtle at times....so I thought I'd just throw in my $.02 for what it's worth.

[ethios4]

As for hot asses, breats implants, and the like....I feel both ways....I'd be lying if I said that photo of the chicks on the beach wasn't titillating, in fact awe-inspiring. But then I quickly come to realize that a person looking like that is, unfortunately, probably indicative of some pretty warped thinking, in my book anyway. Of course, I've been witnessing the destruction of my mom's body over the last 20 years as the result of breast implant leakage, and I spent the first 13 years of my life with severe medical problems becasue I was in her womb when her body was flooded with toxic substances. So puttin gimplants in your body seems a little warped to me.

So when I see women that look like that, I usually first feel insane lustful feelings, then anger, then sadness. I feel sadness thinking about a beautiful young person feeling like she has have implants put in her body to look a certain way that she probably hasn't really thought through. Not to mention the amount of time and money it takes to look like that, at the expense of things that actually matter for real, such as wisdom, depth, intellect, independant opions, healthful living, security, real love, etc.

To each his/her own, ya know. Everyone is on the path they are on, and for a good reason. It inspires me to love people all the more, without judgment and without my own ego-serving ideas of who a person should be.

Booyaka!

[Machinesworking]

To each his/her own, ya know. Everyone is on the path they are on, and for a good reason.

Nice post, but are you sure that everyone's paths are the result of good reasons?

Personally I can explain the behavior of almost anybody with the knowledge derived from studying psychology, but I can't forgive or condone. Basically we all follow patterns of behavior derived from conditioning.

For instance, if we had been born bushmen in africa, women with an extra 40 pounds or more, would be considered the hottest, most desirable, and if we had been born in europe in the 15nth century or so, it would be pale women with far set small eyes, large foreheads, and tiny mouths.... I think it's important to recognize conditioning as a huge part of what is considered attractive.

[djshiva]

As for hot asses, breats implants, and the like....I feel both ways....I'd be lying if I said that photo of the chicks on the beach wasn't titillating, in fact awe-inspiring. But then I quickly come to realize that a person looking like that is, unfortunately, probably indicative of some pretty warped thinking, in my book anyway. Of course, I've been witnessing the destruction of my mom's body over the last 20 years as the result of breast implant leakage, and I spent the first 13 years of my life with severe medical problems becasue I was in her womb when her body was flooded with toxic substances. So puttin gimplants in your body seems a little warped to me.

So when I see women that look like that, I usually first feel insane lustful feelings, then anger, then sadness. I feel sadness thinking about a beautiful young person feeling like she has have implants put in her body to look a certain way that she probably hasn't really thought through. Not to mention the amount of time and money it takes to look like that, at the expense of things that actually matter for real, such as wisdom, depth, intellect, independant opions, healthful living, security, real love, etc.

To each his/her own, ya know. Everyone is on the path they are on, and for a good reason. It inspires me to love people all the more, without judgment and without my own ego-serving ideas of who a person should be.

Booyaka!

believe me, i am DEFINITELY not sayin' the girl in the pic posted on page 2 DOESN'T have a nice shape! i am a DYKE after all...

sorry to hear about your mom. wow...

yeah, i am not a fan of breast implants at all. messing with your body to reach some unattainable goal of beauty is kinda twisted. and as soon as you think you've hit the goal...whoops! it changes again. it's a great way to keep people's minds caught up in self-loathing and the pursuit of superficial beauty, instead of using their minds and overcoming these short-sighted useless goals to become fully actualized human beings.

not to mention fake breasts just look funny to me. i like breasts just the way they are, thanks. big, small, perky, saggy...doesn't matter to me...i think they are all beautiful. they are all part of a whole person and i love the variety that nature gives us...

and i didn't take your post at the top of this page in a bad way...worry not. i am seriously all for intelligent discussion about sexism with my geeky boys. i think it's incredibly important to bring these things out in the open and analyze ALL of our ingrained behaviors. without this kind of analysis and sharing, we get nowhere fast.

[djshiva]

To each his/her own, ya know. Everyone is on the path they are on, and for a good reason.

Nice post, but are you sure that everyone's paths are the result of good reasons?

Personally I can explain the behavior of almost anybody with the knowledge derived from studying psychology, but I can't forgive or condone. Basically we all follow patterns of behavior derived from conditioning.

For instance, if we had been born bushmen in africa, women with an extra 40 pounds or more, would be considered the hottest, most desirable, and if we had been born in europe in the 15nth century or so, it would be pale women with far set small eyes, large foreheads, and tiny mouths.... I think it's important to recognize conditioning as a huge part of what is considered attractive.

BAM! dead on!

[ethios4]

To each his/her own, ya know. Everyone is on the path they are on, and for a good reason.

Nice post, but are you sure that everyone's paths are the result of good reasons?

I meant that more on the spiritual tip...not that everyone is making good choices all the time, or that the conditions that shape a person are always ideal. I believe everyone is doing the best they can with the skills and experiences they have. If a person chooses a path I see as bad for them, I believe they are making the path they need for their spiritual evolution, although why this is may not be immediately apparent to myself or the person. Basically I seek to free myself from my own ego-bound judgments of another person, which is the only way for me to truly love that person.

Personally I can explain the behavior of almost anybody with the knowledge derived from studying psychology, but I can't forgive or condone. Basically we all follow patterns of behavior derived from conditioning.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but are you saying that a person's actions and choices are the result of their conditioning, and that you are unable to forgive or condone? Those seem like incompatible statements to me....where does responsibility fit into that? No doubt that conditioning plays a huge role in body-image issues, definitely the lead role, but when we say that it's all conditioning, that takes away a person's ability to choose. My head is pretty fucked up most of the time from lots of things in my childhood, but I make a conscious effort to choose a way out every chance I get.


As for the conditioning/bushman part....hehe, I love that point of information. I think it puts a lot of the body-image stuff in proper perspective. I wonder how people of different cultures/times would react to seeing the hotties on the beach?