OT - Germans Push Europe on Holocaust

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:26 pm

Machinesworking wrote:You stated a biblical "law" as a permissible in "gods" opinion way of dealing with sodomy.

Man you're thick. I'm simply saying that GAY SEX ACCORDING TO JUDEO-CHRISTIAN SOURCES IS BAD...NOT GOOD...BIG NO NO, ETC. So if these spooky govts, with their religious agenda, were really so scary and spooky they'd clearly ban anything that would upset their god...no?

Machinesworking wrote:then whether it is practiced now by the elders in your temple of worship or not has NOTHING to do with the simple fact that you brought it up out of your hatred for gays, period. You couldn't bring it up without stating your personal disgust.

Are you serious? You're accusing me of homophobia because I referenced the Bible to make a political point. So in your world, 1 + 6 = 34, huh?

Machinesworking wrote:My guess is you would not be opposed to hasidic law being the norm in the states, and in that case, the possible return of this practice.

I will lube up and have gay anal sex...with you even, if you can point to any legit source that describes "hasidic law". My guess is you don't know much about Judaism and you're referring to laws that were codified in the Talmud (Mishnah and Gemarah)...which predates Chassidim movements by about 1400 years. But you knew that already, huh?

Machinesworking wrote:But no, here you are talking about ancient practices of stoning gays, then stating your dislike of gays, and commenting about how you choose not to hang out with atheists..... prejudice comes in many forms.

I addressed your accusation of "homophobia" above. With respect to atheists...what can I tell ya...I find religious folks much more interesting. Similar to the way I jam with guitarists who are into My Bloody Valentine rather than, say 80’s glam shredders. Nothing too sinister, just personal preferences.

Machinesworking wrote:but you really can't change the fact that you're an intolerant human being, and in that sense, right in line with the holocaust revisionists you probably hate.

Wow tough words machinesworking. The fact remains that you're throwing around accusations towards a straw-man. I'd recommend any grade 9 debating course...it'll do wonders for your future on-line encounters.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:30 pm

machine - quit while you're ahead.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:01 am

I think people are missing shtreimel's point...

He's not necessarily argueing against sodomy, he's saying;

1. A Christian Fundamentalist Theocratic state would not tolerate public displays of homosexuality or sodomy
2. Sodomy and homosexuality is legal (or illegal but tolerated) in Canada and the US
3. Therefore, Canada and the US are not Christian Fundamentalist Theocratic states.

There's no value judgement on anything there, it's simple Premise 1 does not jive with premise 2, therefore conclusion 3.

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:57 am

M. Bréqs wrote:I think people are missing shtreimel's point...

He's not necessarily argueing against sodomy, he's saying;

1. A Christian Fundamentalist Theocratic state would not tolerate public displays of homosexuality or sodomy
2. Sodomy and homosexuality is legal (or illegal but tolerated) in Canada and the US
3. Therefore, Canada and the US are not Christian Fundamentalist Theocratic states.

There's no value judgement on anything there, it's simple Premise 1 does not jive with premise 2, therefore conclusion 3.

Was I that unclear? Thanks for making it simple Monsieur Breqs.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:50 pm

shtreimel wrote: Was I that unclear? Thanks for making it simple Monsieur Breqs.

bienvenu!

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:26 pm

Well it was worded a tinsy bit stronger than that when it was first brought up. So I don't think we can blame Machines that much for jumping to conclusions:

shtreimel wrote:
info_warfare wrote: it is tearing the ENTIRE world apart!
Curious though. If you believe in God, then much of what we accept as "normal" in today's society is doing far more damage than anything the Christian Right is preaching. Take homosexuality...how is it possible that God Fearing Conservative Goverments (Canada and the US) would allow gay pride parades that include simulated acts of felatio and anal sex in the middle of the afternoon. I mean, God's punishment for anal sex is death by stoning. Why would any God fearing govt allow such blatant heresey.

We're living in postmodern era where almost anything goes so long as you don't maim or kill someone. Can we get more lenient?

And last I recall, most wars/deaths have been caused by secular govts:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1121/p09s01-coop.html

Anyway, debating the good and bad points of various religions and atheism isn’t really the point for me. It’s a bit like saying we’ll believe in Newton physics and not Einsteins theory of relativity cause then we can’t have nuclear weapons which would be bad.

I’m sure religion has done a huge amount of good for the world (probably more than making up for the problems it’s caused), but I just don’t understand what makes people believe in any organised religion.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:47 pm

Tone Deft wrote:machine - quit while you're ahead.

I should have said, "quit while shtreimel is behind". This crosshugger is so far gone it's pointless.

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:22 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:machine - quit while you're ahead.
I should have said, "quit while shtreimel is behind". This crosshugger is so far gone it's pointless.

Cross hugger? I'm a star hugger baby. Is it just athiest abe fans, or athiests in general, that know not what they're debating?

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:32 pm

andydes wrote:but I just don’t understand what makes people believe in any organised religion.

That's sorta like asking...why do people believe in organised anything? Why have rules...laws...structure (I have no doubt the pre-teen/teen and peter pan-esque adults are thinking: "Yeah...yeah...fuck all that conformity")? And besides, the Orthodox Jews I hang with don't "believe" in organized religion perse, they do what they do according to comfort and custom. If you ask them what they "believe", you'll get a myriad of answers...none of which will include "I believe in the organised religion of Judaism". Following Jewish law/custom is comprised of 4000 years of culture, nationality, history and theology. It's not a one-off decision to "believe" in Judaism. I'm assuming this is true for many religious folks.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:40 pm

shtreimel wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:machine - quit while you're ahead.
I should have said, "quit while shtreimel is behind". This crosshugger is so far gone it's pointless.
Cross hugger? I'm a star hugger baby. Is it just athiest abe fans, or athiests in general, that know not what they're debating?

Awsome! more proof of your prejudice!
Let's change the word atheist to jew here, and see what you think hmmm?

"Is it just jewish abe fans, or jews in general, that know not what they're debating?"
Kind of makes you all uncomfortable and attacked in a bigoted simple minded sort of way doesn't it?
You are officially an ass! My work is done here.

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:42 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Awsome! more proof of your prejudice!
Let's change the word atheist to jew here, and see what you think hmmm?

"Is it just jewish abe fans, or jews in general, that know not what they're debating?"
Kind of makes you all uncomfortable and attacked in a bigoted simple minded sort of way doesn't it?
You are officially an ass! My work is done here.

Machinesworking...you win, ok? You win

Hassidic laws