OT: Is the decline of gender roles making us stupid and lazy

[beats me]

It's just another extension of capitalism. When you here about all the cut backs people have had to make as the result of losing a job, on the list is usually things they were paying people for that they could have just done themselves...maintaining the yard/pool, washing the car, making coffee, eating at home, etc.

Looks like you're going to have to check under the bed for the bogeyman yourself, Beats. Society can't afford to send the fuzz every time you get a gameboy stolen, MAN!

I think I should respond to this but I have no idea what you said there. Can you please explain or reword.

[scott nathaniel]

I think I should respond to this but I have no idea what you said there. Can you please explain or reword.

I'm just teasing, and agreeing, with you, here:

We are becoming a bunch of pussies if you take our safe distance weapons out of the equation.

Remove the fuzz and you'll find a big-ole-wet-pussy.

[gjm]

Actually I don't think the roles have declined so much as reversed in many ways. For whatever reason the recession seems to be hitting women in the workforce less than men. Out of the 5 couples my wife and I are friends with out here in Seattle, the women all have jobs while the men are stuck unemployed struggling to find work. Though I still do the construction and work on the cars

Couple of days ago they released the latest unemployment stat's here and the rate % of womans employment has increased 5 times during this recession. They are definitely taking a hit here.

Roles are definitely changing, but there is more to the trend of people loosing basic life skills than androgyny. I believe that 'Time' or lack there of forces people to make lifestyle choices they would not have done in the past. Free 'Time' has become a commodity that is highly sort after. Its not that there was any more of it 30 years ago, its that so many more events and activities are now viewed as necessary for becoming well balanced human beings, everything from going to the gym to being there for johnny every time he laces up his boots. In many areas of life there are general standards being applied that require (almost) specialist skills. Where as I would stick my head under the hood of my dads car and watch while he changed the spark plugs, checked the gap etc and use a timing light, I simply just do not need to do the same kind of maintenance anymore for my Honda, plus the mechanic up the road, the one that specializes in brakes can wack those in for a deal, cause it saves me time so I can watch johnny's game.

The other aspect is that many western cultures now have 'Specialist' mentalities. They have been developed in the workforce in order to decrease the time between starting and finishing a project (time and money). This has bled over into almost everything that is done now. Even in my trade of boat building, as an aprentice I took a pile of lumber and turned it into the finished article. That included learning skills in painting, laminating, engineering (motor installation), plumbing, electrical, metal casting etc, you get the picture. But now each one of these has become a trade in and of itself. Being a boat builder today means something different than it did 25 years ago, even though the 'qualification' is the same.

There are still individuals around that just 'do it' themselves. I am one of those. It hacks my wife off because the lady down the road got her new laundry in a week but its taken me 7 weeks so far to build ours.

Basically I think that a lot of cultures are now trained to trade off time and money saved with either the hassle of having to learn a new skill or missing out on leisure time.

[slirak]

BTW. I'm Swedish and Sweden is known as one of the world's most gender equal societies (that's not to say we still haven't got a lot to do to actually become really equal). I have no problem with that, quite the contrary.

Anyway, if anything, the younger generations here are less equal than my own (I'm 43) and I too think those generations are stupid and lazy as compared to my own. Part of that feeling is obviously just because I'm getting old and grumpy.

But I also think there's an actual change for the worse when it comes to responsibility and stuff, but since things are getting less equal here, I can't see how that could be contributed to blurring of the gender roles. If anything, rather the opposite. But I suspect it's about different things altogether and I agree it's probably an extension of capitalism, but perhaps not the way the OP means. I think media in this consumerism society is becoming ridiculously superficial and lures younger folks into thinking fame is all that matters and that you can have it all without any work or responsibility. (OK, that's over simplified to say the least, but what the heck, this is a DJ forum! )

I'm also noticing that over here, young dudes are much worse than girls when it comes to being lazy ass sods. I suppose young women still can appreciate what emancipation is enabling them to do. They can still look at how their grandmothers where forced into gender stereotypes and see how they themselves are privileged. And it's not only me feeling this, you can see it statistics, about how kids perform at school and in how many youngsters attain university. Girls are getting the intellectual edge on guys and certainly not only in 'girly' subjects. For an example, girls are much better than guys at maths in Sweden these days.

OK, rant mode off. I'm getting a beer and firing up that ol' XBox now. Maybe I'll watch some porn later.

[slirak]

The other aspect is that many western cultures now have 'Specialist' mentalities. They have been developed in the workforce in order to decrease the time between starting and finishing a project (time and money). This has bled over into almost everything that is done now. Even in my trade of boat building, as an aprentice I took a pile of lumber and turned it into the finished article. That included learning skills in painting, laminating, engineering (motor installation), plumbing, electrical, metal casting etc, you get the picture. But now each one of these has become a trade in and of itself. Being a boat builder today means something different than it did 25 years ago, even though the 'qualification' is the same.

That too. Specialisation of tasks is of course completely necessary for any 'civilisation' and has been around and developing as long as Homo Sapiens. Still, the less you have to know about what it really takes to achieve a task (i.e. build a boat), the easier it is to think the little you know is all there is. (That's a common problem with managers to BTW! )

[Johnisfaster]

I don't know very many women that actually want to be working. The weird thing is most the women I know wish we could go back to a time where they stayed home and did "womens jobs" while the man took care of the money and fixing shit. The problem is thats not really possible for the middle class in america anymore.

[eisnein]

this argument will be rendered useless when the Singularity occurs. We will able to be which ever role we want whenever we want fulfilling all gender needs regardless of sex.

[slirak]

I don't know very many women that actually want to be working. The weird thing is most the women I know wish we could go back to a time where they stayed home and did "womens jobs" while the man took care of the money and fixing shit. The problem is thats not really possible for the middle class in america anymore.

Do you know any men that wanna be working??? I certainly don't want to!

A few people will always thrive on change, any change. But the majority will feel uncomfortable with it. With any change. That's just human nature. Here in Sweden, most women have been working full-time since the mid/late seventies. It's rare to hear any woman younger than like 70 not wanting it that way nowadays.

Honest to God, what on earth can be wrong with allowing people to make their choices in life without having to consider their sex?

Some people bring up the biology argument. Well, I'm not saying that man and women are identical. It would be ridiculous to say we're biologically identical! But there are really very few biological differences between the sexes that maps specifically to what western culture happens to regard as typically male or female. And a lot of the biological differences that can be proven are also found within the sexes, if to a lesser amount.

[beats me]

Do you know any men that wanna be working??? I certainly don't want to!

It's like when pro atheletes retire claiming "I told myself I'd quit when it stops being fun and it's no longer fun". Oh STFU. You have no clue what "no fun" really is in a job....or having a job that you have to work for more than just 4 months a year. Seriously STFU!

[gjm]

I love it when I arrive home and the wife has mowed the lawn. I DETEST it when she decides she has equal rights to use my hammer and screw drivers

Do you know any men that wanna be working??? I certainly don't want to!

I am trying very hard to help the wife get her business up and running. I welcome the day when I can spend some of my days thinking about doing stuff because I want to rather than if it will make a profit. Even better, I would take on cooking and cleaning and making beds and laundry and morning teas with the other mothers when ever the wifes ready to hit the big time

[slirak]

Do you know any men that wanna be working??? I certainly don't want to!

It's like when pro atheletes retire claiming "I told myself I'd quit when it stops being fun and it's no longer fun". Oh STFU. You have no clue what "no fun" really is in a job....or having a job that you have to work for more than just 4 months a year. Seriously STFU!

Oh for the love of Dom, pro athletes...? To have the opportunity to stop working when it's no longer fun?!! Now why didn't biology make me an athlete???

When I say I don't wanna work, it's a matter of definition obviously. I love doing stuff, being active, striving, having to sweat a lot to achieve my goals. I just hate having to sweat to achieve other people's goals. Maybe that's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about women's emancipation. Because that's what it's really is about, isn't it? Allowing everyone to strive for their own individual goals (in a way responsible to the community!) and not being locked in by prejudice, society's expectations, gender roles, whatever.

[aqua_tek]

So, what are you ladies squabbling about today?

*WINK*

[slirak]

So, what are you ladies squabbling about today?

*WINK*

We just wanna get laid obviously!

[McQ714]

^ and we'll go to pathetic endless lengths to do that!!!

[McQ714]

are there actually any women on this forum regularly??? or is this a huge sausage fest?