We need a list of the 3rd party stuff that works well

[HeadrickProductions]

the abes mentioned a particular brand of plugs they have problems with they dont want to name...

why?

+1

If it is a problem, abes customers should be advised about the issues relating to the 'unnamed' plug.

Name and shame!

That is all I was asking....Pretty straight forward...I've seen that there is a specific bug in a plugin that I use. Why has this been not discussed openly

This is not out of line. this is not bitching, this is just what I need to know to make my performace as stable as possible.

[LoopStationZebra]

hmm

[Tone Deft]

meh, not much to contemplate, he has info but he can't process it.

does he know how many THOUSANDS of plug-ins there are? who would ever have the time to list them? let alone install them all and try them ALL to the point of knowing exactly which ones worked?

not to mention the combination of plug-ins, which ones work with what?

then multiply all that by at least FIVE so you can test WinXP, Win7, Vista, OSX, etc.

not to mention the angry feedback Ableton would get if they came to a wrong conclusion about a single one of them.

think about it.


once again the shitty conclusion pops up, users are beta testers. I don't see any other way to test really. the problem was not enough testing to begin with and maybe too many tweaks to the product at once (specualtion,) now it's catch up time.




where the hell is 3phase at? I missed his daily rant!!!

[andrewbrewer]

"mr. alias" is the most stable of all 3rd party plugs

[timothyallan]

Utility seems stable to me. Only on OSX 10.6.3 on a Core2Duo though, we need more input from other users of different systems.

[LoopStationZebra]

meh, not much to contemplate, he has info but he can't process it.

does he know how many THOUSANDS of plug-ins there are? who would ever have the time to list them? let alone install them all and try them ALL to the point of knowing exactly which ones worked?

not to mention the combination of plug-ins, which ones work with what?

then multiply all that by at least FIVE so you can test WinXP, Win7, Vista, OSX, etc.

not to mention the angry feedback Ableton would get if they came to a wrong conclusion about a single one of them.

think about it.


once again the shitty conclusion pops up, users are beta testers. I don't see any other way to test really. the problem was not enough testing to begin with and maybe too many tweaks to the product at once (specualtion,) now it's catch up time.




where the hell is 3phase at? I missed his daily rant!!!

truth. TRUTH. ffs. Posting that kind of list would be nothing short of insanity. It all makes sense on the surface as a spur-of-the-moment thing, but then this probably did as well:

[dum]

a green list is stupid, in otherwords a 'here's what works' list. as has been pointed out.
but a red list would be prudent, in otherwords a 'known issues' list.

They're never going to publish such a list for what ultimately amounts to economic reasons imo. Shit, they're not even publishing changelogs at the moment



in live 6 they advertised SAMPLER has being completely compatible with .nki libraries. it wasn't - many libraries couldn't be imported without actually owning Kontakt as well, in some cases even owning kontakt wasn't enough to work around this. they continued to advertise it as fully functional despite the fact it was an issue known to them from the onset of live 6. live 7 was released and this issue still wasn't fixed in live 6 by then.

this is why known issues lists exist.

I'm not talking pie-in-the-sky shit either, I own several pieces of software that come with detailed changelogs and a known-issues list. It's called 'common courtesy' but I'm not sure if this term exists in german or not.

[3dot...]

I'd like to have a list of "working" hw setups...
computer model+graphics card+audio interface

Dennis is saying there are a lot people using L8 with no problems whatsoever...
I'd like to know their setup.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=139942

[dum]

^^^ good luck with that.

last time i saw hardware specifics requested no info was provided.

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... &start=135

if you had sync problems with Live 7, it is relatively safe to say that you'll have sync problems in Live 8, too. Please download the Live 8 demo and check this carefully before you buy. It might be a good idea to try different MIDI interfaces if you can, as the interface and its driver is usually the weakest point in MIDI sync connections.

Btw, sorry that we don't comment these sync related threads so often. Sync problems can have many different reasons, so it's quite hard for us to make any definitive statements or provide any solutions. We recently made extensive sync tests with Live (again) and found that Live itself sends a very stable clock when running as the master, especially on Macs. Live usually scored better than the other hosts we tested. On a few Windows PCs we found several instabilities, but all other hosts had the same problems on these machines, too. On Windows machines it highly depends on the motherboard chipsets and how good the drivers perform.

I'm quite busy at the moment as you can probably imagine, but I'll post some more info / tips here soon. If I don't, just give this thread a bump.

Best,
Nico

after that post he was asked (nicely) to specify what midi interfaces worked best in their tests.
He didn't reply.

To be honest, I think it's crazy to acknowledge this:

It might be a good idea to try different MIDI interfaces if you can, as the interface and its driver is usually the weakest point in MIDI sync connections.

and not follow it up with info like which interface performs best in their tests.

like...wtf ?

[3dot...]

yeah.. weak.
I'm betting ableton support has a pretty good idea already on what works best..
they won't post it though out of business etiquette ...

I asked this dude who was saying he had 0 problems.. he never replied ..
well worth a try though..

if only ableton testing/support/development guys could log in anonymously and post the good setups they know of..
either that or I call bluff on the 'live is working fine for most' statement..
I have pretty good system specs.. only program to give me issues is Live..I'm thinking.. what do I have to do yo get this program to work..?!
a year in... v8 is pretty ridiculous and unpredictable for me..

[longjohnmike]

Kudos to this topic. I think it really hits the core of the heart of many of the headaches that both the Ableton developers as well as Ableton users are having. It seems to me this issue creates a real dilemma all the way around. On one hand it would be foolish from a business perspective for Ableton to admit it's programm does not work with certain apps. Or even worse, for them to admit that they don't know what it does and does not work with and what prevents it from working.

But then you have the users perspective. That is, we invested gobs of dough into products that will supposedly work seamlessly with Ableton and then a big crash ultimately occurs. Well this happens, I understand, ok fine. But when the vitriol really sets in is when help is sought by tech support (be it from Ableton of the third party guy) and the reply is "that is an issue with your third party, please contact them" and you contact them and they say the same thing. This is a bit ridiculous because if it caused the host program to crash then obviously there is something wrong on that end of the line and so it really makes no sense to brush people off as if they are insolent.

Hence the very sound logic of posting known issues with various software and hardware products. Or, gasp, even corresponding with the competitor as a way to weed out the bugs. After all the Ableton people are in a sense one giant compilation of knowlege on what does and what does not work. This is opposed to Joe consumer who shells out multiple hundreds of dollars on some product and has white knuckles the entire drive home just anticipating whether their next week will be spent trying to figure out how to make their hard earned prize work the way that it was claimed to work right off the bat.

Bitchy? Perhaps. But what did you expect, praise for looking good in a suit and tie?

[Machinesworking]

To be honest, I think it's crazy to acknowledge this:

It might be a good idea to try different MIDI interfaces if you can, as the interface and its driver is usually the weakest point in MIDI sync connections.

and not follow it up with info like which interface performs best in their tests.

like...wtf ?

I'll throw you a bone from tech support anyway,
The MOTU MTP AV scored the highest in MIDI sync on the Mac side, and super high on PC.
The RME Fireface, and presumedly all RME MIDI drivers/hardware score very high as well.
Though it's what you would expect isn't it? the top of the line gear does very well.

Still does nothing to make getting Live to sync as well as Digital Performer or Logic on my system that those happen to be my MIDI devices though.

[dum]

I see.

[Machinesworking]

The main problem with a list of buggy software is the simple fact that software changes all the time, updates and upgrades happen.
NI are a great example, Reactor was a buggy piece of shit on Mac, and fine on PC pre version 4. Now there's no issues.
Battery has had issues with Live on and off, depending on updates seemingly from either side. Another example is OS issues. OSX 10.3 and the quad core G5's, nothing in the OS was in place to utilize all four cores, or it wasn't well implemented. FXPansion's BFD drumkit would crash, but explain to a person that believes that the Mac OS can't have issues this? Same goes for Ableton, some part of their code could be buggy in an update, and it's possible that it could be Ableton, and not the way the developer wrote the VST/AU. It's something though where it only affects a certain plug in that utilizes some obscure VST/AU resource, and gets fixed in less that three months, should Ableton publically hang themselves for it? or should the end user not use that plug in until it works? What I'm getting at is a list would have to be maintained EVERY DAY, there would have to be full disclosure of who was at fault, and it's not even a matter of discussion that when a bug emerges if it's not immediately obvious who's fault it is, the finger pointing is going to be pretty fast furious and stupid. What if there's a change in Windows 7 say, that's documented but not obvious, and both plug in and DAW manufacturers get it slightly wrong? The finger pointing would be retarded. I'm OK with that being a behind closed doors thing, and if there was a list it would by necessity HAVE to be a non involved third party.

Now known issues with a singular combination that are consistent and documented by both sides would be cool, but those are rare. I can only think of the IK bug off hand where it was that straightforward. Even with the REactor problems I had, I used Reactor when it was buggy, just not in a live situation. So in the end it's still up the to user. <-- I see no way around that by a list, as human beings tend to ally themselves with DAWs, plug ins, OS etc. so the list would be IMO impossible to keep straight and not biased.

[HeadrickProductions]

I understand that it is crazy in the beginning to say outright that a company has a product with an issue. Once they came out with the quality statement they should have just come clean with the problems that they know about. If they simply reply on a pool of beta testers to fix these problems.....it will never get done. The only reason I say that is because of an issue that someone else brought up about the seemingly limitless combination of hardware, OS, plugins, as well as computer specs. A few folks keep accusing me of just trying to rant, but all I want to do is get to the bottom of things and have the program work for all folks including my setup. That is why I posted my setup at the bottom.....not to say here is the gear I have....it is so people know what setups are having problems.

I really like 3dot's thread about having folks post the specific types of setups that work for folks and we the users will get to the bottom of this crashing nonsense.