Ableton Forum

socialjusticeman wrote:Hey all,

Is it just me or is anyone else here sick to death of max for live being the default answer to any genuine question on these forums?

If anyone wants to do anything interesting in live, some fracking M4L guy decides to tell us all that the way to do this is to learn a new language.

It'd be like is a person asked if there was an english word for "expecting things to work out well and for the best" and instead of just answering "optimism", the person insisted on telling you you'd need to learn mandarin in order to properly express yourself.

Maybe in this forum we should stick to live and keep the m4l forum for all of this m4l crap.

I'm just sick of the arrogance of max.

Ian

Social Justice Man

I can hardly disagree with you. Most of useless post related with "use m4l" replys have been usualy done by fanboys who don't know much about m4l at all. Addition, the m4l can't be so CPU friendly as Live itself , so the method can't be first choice to achieve what users want. M4l is m4l but not Live. Otherwise we should add the phrase "No m4l" in the inquiry.

[Music for life]-----[Max for live]
Having tools to express yourself is what you need...
If you have something to say...
What ev'
be critical of ourselves.

even when i think M4L is a great addition to live, i think socialjusticeman has right somehow.
even on the ableton webpage for long time the news was M4L-related.
maybe this seems so one way to me because they are working on live 8 patches ( good decision so far )
and sure on live 9, wich will be evolutional again - and hopefully rock stable.

max6 and live9 are being compressed (as we speak) into one single product ... Ableton max 69
it's done ..get over it..

I'd probably be one of the people who say you should use M4L, but it would generally be about routing midi because Live is so ridiculously limited. Live has had 8 full versions now to do something about it and I for one am glad they introduced M4L as at least now it makes things achievable that weren't before. So if someone asks a question about something that is not doable in Live alone and they have a M4L solution, I don't see any issue - in fact, I think it is very helpful. Also, there are a ton of M4L patches that will probably do 90% of the things that Live doesn't do - you just need to look for them.

Someone commented that M4L has nothing to do with music? That is such BS. It is an enabler to create music which would be impossible to create otherwise. It allows for a completely different take on the music writing process which generates really interesting results. If you are okay with making some beats with some tunes and chords over it and throwing it through effects, fine, but to say that Max programming is not a musical venture is an extremely ignorant comment. It would be better to simply say "programming is not for me".

I agree with whoever posted and said include "No M4L comments" in a thread, but I fear for a lot of questions that the response will be "Can't help you then" - that's if you get a response at all. I also agree that some may overlook Live itself sometimes and suggest M4L instead - for me I would stay in Live until it made sense not to.

Last thought - you can do things in Live - or any other DAW for that matter - that would take a long long time to do in Max/MSP. Conversely, you can do things in 5 minutes in Max/MSP that you either cannot do in a DAW or that takes you a very long time. I would think that is why Ableton/Cycling 74 incorporated the two of them - they compliment each other very well.

trevox wrote:Someone commented that M4L has nothing to do with music? That is such BS. It is an enabler to create music which would be impossible to create otherwise. It allows for a completely different take on the music writing process which generates really interesting results. If you are okay with making some beats with some tunes and chords over it and throwing it through effects, fine, but to say that Max programming is not a musical venture is an extremely ignorant comment. It would be better to simply say "programming is not for me".

who said that?

Tone Deft wrote:

trevox wrote:Someone commented that M4L has nothing to do with music? That is such BS. It is an enabler to create music which would be impossible to create otherwise. It allows for a completely different take on the music writing process which generates really interesting results. If you are okay with making some beats with some tunes and chords over it and throwing it through effects, fine, but to say that Max programming is not a musical venture is an extremely ignorant comment. It would be better to simply say "programming is not for me".

who said that?

jamief wrote:I've had max for live for a quite awhile now and to be honest i,m not even vaguely interested in working programming it - i have not got the attention span to facilitate it. To me sitting down programming that thing has got ** all to do with music and life is far to interesting to waist sitting tapping away on that shite.
In saying all that i do realise how valuable a tool it is that why i bought it.

I probably should have phrased it better to "Someone commented that programming in M4L has nothing to do with music". My point is someone has to program these applications and it all has a lot to do with creating music. So if existing programs do not do what you want them to do, you will have to do some programming to achieve the results yourself or live with restrictions - which in all honesty is not a bad thing sometimes! And Max is a LOT easier than learning a computer language which would be the only other way.

And sorry jamief, I don't mean to pick on you and that is why I did not include a quote in the first place. Just wanted to make the point that Max programming is used by a lot of people to achieve musical results (when writing music of course - it actually does a lot more).

3dot... wrote:max6 and live9 are being compressed (as we speak) into one single product ... Ableton max 69
it's done ..get over it..

I hear Ableton max 69 only runs on Mac OS/XXX

socialjusticeman wrote:Hey all,

Is it just me or is anyone else here sick to death of max for live being the default answer to any genuine question on these forums?

If anyone wants to do anything interesting in live, some fracking M4L guy decides to tell us all that the way to do this is to learn a new language.

It'd be like is a person asked if there was an english word for "expecting things to work out well and for the best" and instead of just answering "optimism", the person insisted on telling you you'd need to learn mandarin in order to properly express yourself.

Maybe in this forum we should stick to live and keep the m4l forum for all of this m4l crap.

I'm just sick of the arrogance of max.

Ian

Social Justice Man

I don't think you can stop this natively with Live, however there may be another solution.

Have you heard of Max for Live?

ShelLuser wrote:Before that time we had the Launchpad. Heck, we even had the APC40 and APC20. Not sure anymore which came out first (Launchpad or APC) 'cause frankly I don't care. But same applies... "I want to do this and that". "DUDE you should look into a launchpad" "No an APC" "No, get Maschine" "No, you need the Kore controller (guess who had the last laugh there? )...

Fuck Maschine. NI are designing it as an Ableton Live killer. If you truly care about Live and believe in the workflow it provides, steer clear. Plus, it will eventually get abandoned just like (almost) every other great NI product. Buyer beware.

As for the Kore controller, stay tuned. We dedicated Kore users have a few things up our sleeves. We're going to force NI to make good on their promises.

Cheers,

-ix

p.s. Oh, and I'm *totally* getting ready to get Max and M4L, but I'm waiting until Live 9 is announced. I have a feeling a bunch of devices only previously available in M4L will be available in L9, and I'm stoked to get into the whole MAX/MSP/Jitter environment.

Mashine is just a online version drum machine. Inferior to apc and nothing is common with Live at all noobs.

pencilrocket wrote:Mashine is just a online version drum machine. Inferior to apc and nothing is common with Live at all noobs.

It's an integrated environment, very much in common with Live + APC40. Ableton knows it, too, and I really hope they're poised to crush it.

And who are you callin' noob? You have fewer posts than I do hahahaha!

Cheers,

-ix

looprication wrote:It's an integrated environment, very much in common with Live + APC40. Ableton knows it, too, and I really hope they're poised to crush it.

And who are you callin' noob? You have fewer posts than I do hahahaha!

Cheers,

-ix

Maschin is not Live. You don't know whether Ableton knows or not. Nodoubt. Noob always cares his post counts. Thanks for obvious self-explanation noob.

pencilrocket wrote:Noob always cares his post counts. Thanks for obvious self-explanation noob.

FFS... is it really necessary to be so offensive to other forum users?

Also, I don't understand where you get off saying...

pencilrocket wrote:Most of useless post related with "use m4l" replys have been usualy done by fanboys who don't know much about m4l at all.

...when this comment of yours is clearly based on S4cren's post in this forum topic. Looking over the content S4cren has developed for Live/M4L I'd definatley say he isn't in the 'fanboys who don't know much about m4l' category.

looprication wrote:Fuck Maschine. NI are designing it as an Ableton Live killer. If you truly care about Live and believe in the workflow it provides, steer clear. Plus, it will eventually get abandoned just like (almost) every other great NI product.

What the...?

That's nonsense. Here's what NI said a few months ago:

"Maschine has become one of the central products in the NI portfolio in record time, it has one of the biggest team of developers, designers and product managers behind it and a comprehensive roadmap ahead of it. The notion that it could be considered for discontinuation is just completely nonsensical.

To put some perspective on the hysteria that some people have been trying to whip up: Traktor and Kontakt have been in constant development for 10 years, and Reaktor has been maintained since 15 years now. There is no reason to believe that Maschine will not progress and grow further for at least the same amount of time."
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... stcount=36