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Re: New midi?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:14 pm
by ian_halsall
why fixed?
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:52 am
by Muzik 4 Machines
edes421 wrote:Midi is a kind of old system by the standards of how technology progresses through time.
My question, just to use as an open discussion, is why hasn't there been a "new" midi protocol?
I think about this as I turn a knob on my midi controller. As Ableton response to my notion, it
does it in a very audible manor. Like for example, if I'm trying to pitch bend a note 2 octaves
up you can hear each of the 128 steps it takes to get there.
Why hasn't there been an update to the old 4 bit midi system; say to 8 bit to give the system 256 values.
We update audio quality all the time; 16-> 32-> 64 bit depth; 24-> 44.1-> 96kHz sampling.
I think there needs to be a change in the system to midi as well. Like why aren't we running a 16 bit version yet?
Thoughts?
(if any of the above information is false, im doing this all off the top of my head so don't yell at me!)
pitchbend is supposed to be 7 bit (+/- 16384 values) especially for it not to staircase
there is an updated protocol, it's called OSC
@ikeaboy, mLAN was the shit, so sad it didnt work out (if roland hadnt tried to invent their own shitty protocol and followed yamaha and korg (and apple, presonus, etc) it would have had a good shot, i dreamt so much about having just 1 firewire cable going to and from every device, no more cable mess, virtual patchbays, etc)
and it's true, MIDI is still the most reliable thing out there, hasn't changed in over 25 years, unlike vst, au, the roland network protocols, etc that have new non retro compatible versions every 6 months, you plug a brand new MIDI interface in a 25 years old synth, and it works flawlessly
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:51 am
by Da hand
Muzik 4 Machines wrote:pitchbend is supposed to be 7 bit (+/- 16384 values) especially for it not to staircase
The math is a little wrong there, lol
7 bit = 2^7 (2 to the power of 7) = 128
What you describe is 15 bit (2^15 = 32768 or +/- 16384)
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:15 am
by Muzik 4 Machines
oops sorry, it's MIDI that is 7 bit and pitch bend that is 15, it's just that the OP (wrongly) said MIDI was 4 bit
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:39 am
by subliminal
OSC FTW!
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:43 am
by ian_halsall
this is one confused load of tosh
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:58 am
by trevox
Similar to pitch bend, some devices are now using NRPN's (non-registered parameter numbers) which allows for higher resolution than standard midi cc's using the same technology by sending two 7 bit messages (MSB and LSB). This allows for 16,384 divisions, rather than 128. One big problem is that if you are using standard midi controllers and you want to map to an NRPN, you have to convert it and in the end are in effect back to 7 bit resolution. I can see a lot of controller manufacturers starting to adapt to this (hopefully) in future as more and more hardware devices begin using NRPN's. Alternatively, controllers could be OSC and you could do a conversion before sending to the device and still keep that higher resolution.
BTW, pitch bend is 14 bit (two 7 bit messages), not 15 bit as someone stated previously.
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:07 am
by ian_halsall
I don't really mind the midi resolution thing that much because you can get a rough idea of how things will sound and then fine tune your automation edits in Live.
What I really hate is how Sampler doesn't have genuine automation - you get like 9 fixed midi controllers for some really nice parameters like sample start - only 1 of which (pitch bend) has enough resolution.
And I know you can use simpler for this but wtf???
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:28 pm
by Da hand
trevox wrote:BTW, pitch bend is 14 bit (two 7 bit messages), not 15 bit as someone stated previously.
If you are referring to me by chance, then I was just doing the math on the info provided in this post
I checked the actually MIDI info now and yes, like you say, pitch bend is 0-16383 or +/- 8192 (14bit) and not +/-16384 (15bit) as suggested previously.
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:36 pm
by trevox
Da hand wrote:trevox wrote:BTW, pitch bend is 14 bit (two 7 bit messages), not 15 bit as someone stated previously.
If you are referring to me by chance, then I was just doing the math on the info provided in this post
I checked the actually MIDI info now and yes, like you say, pitch bend is 0-16383 or +/- 8192 (14bit) and not +/-16384 (15bit) as suggested previously.
Wasn't directed at anyone in particular - just clarifying the facts
Re: New midi?
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:44 pm
by Da hand
trevox wrote:Wasn't directed at anyone in particular - just clarifying the facts
Thanks for the info, always good to know the correct facts