New midi?

[edes421]

Midi is a kind of old system by the standards of how technology progresses through time.

My question, just to use as an open discussion, is why hasn't there been a "new" midi protocol?

I think about this as I turn a knob on my midi controller. As Ableton response to my notion, it
does it in a very audible manor. Like for example, if I'm trying to pitch bend a note 2 octaves
up you can hear each of the 128 steps it takes to get there.

Why hasn't there been an update to the old 4 bit midi system; say to 8 bit to give the system 256 values.

We update audio quality all the time; 16-> 32-> 64 bit depth; 24-> 44.1-> 96kHz sampling.

I think there needs to be a change in the system to midi as well. Like why aren't we running a 16 bit version yet?

Thoughts?

(if any of the above information is false, im doing this all off the top of my head so don't yell at me!)

[JuanSOLO]

you can hear the 128 steps because your using a software synth, no so much because of midi limitations.

[Da hand]

There is a new protocol used instead of MIDI, it's called OSC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

It's just that not many music programs have adopted it so far for some reason. All the main VJ programs have it and I noticed DP, Reaper and Traktor as well.

[ian_halsall]

it is strange and nasty especially when you use something like sampler where the modulations are done in MIDI. sweeping sample start over the full length for instance is a joke because it's so grainy.

maybe live 9 will have osc support

[8O]

My question, just to use as an open discussion, is why hasn't there been a "new" midi protocol?

Mostly due to sheer amount of legacy devices that already use MIDI. Adopting a new protocol means you have to support two protocols now.

[8O]

There is a new protocol used instead of MIDI, it's called OSC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

It's just that not many music programs have adopted it so far for some reason. All the main VJ programs have it and I noticed DP, Reaper and Traktor as well.

It's hardly new, but yes, OSC is nice

I don't think Traktor supports OSC. Reaktor does though.

[fishmonkey]

Why hasn't there been an update to the old 4 bit midi system; say to 8 bit to give the system 256 values.

We update audio quality all the time; 16-> 32-> 64 bit depth; 24-> 44.1-> 96kHz sampling.

I think there needs to be a change in the system to midi as well. Like why aren't we running a 16 bit version yet?

Thoughts?

(if any of the above information is false, im doing this all off the top of my head so don't yell at me!)

4 bits only gives you 16 possible values. 128 values is 7 bits.

it is also possible to implement higher resolution with the existing MIDI protocol. and for pitch bends, the MIDI standard includes a pitch wheel command that provides 16,384 levels of resolution.

[ian_halsall]

I don't think it's that difficult to support 2 device interfaces standards.

I think they are already doing it with their own internal automation resolution and midi in a lot of cases.

For instance you can map a parameter to a midi device and you can also automate that parameter internally with a far higher resolution.

It's probably just not commercially attractive.

[theophilus]

I think about this as I turn a knob on my midi controller. As Ableton response to my notion, it
does it in a very audible manor. Like for example, if I'm trying to pitch bend a note 2 octaves
up you can hear each of the 128 steps it takes to get there.

what controller are you using? like fishmonkey said, pitch bend is 14 bits, which is a lot of really small
steps that should be nearly impossible to hear. however, many controllers don't really have that much resolution
(i.e. the controller itself can't distinguish that many steps - a cheaper pitch bend pot, for instance, might be too
noisy to make that kind of resolution worthwhile) and so send fewer. it's probably your controller,
not ableton, so you could start by getting a better controller that actually uses all 14 bits.

[Da hand]

There is a new protocol used instead of MIDI, it's called OSC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_Control

It's just that not many music programs have adopted it so far for some reason. All the main VJ programs have it and I noticed DP, Reaper and Traktor as well.

It's hardly new, but yes, OSC is nice

I don't think Traktor supports OSC. Reaktor does though.

Oh yes, not very new I agree. I just meant it in the spirit of OP's post

I think you are right about Traktor. I just read it was supported in the link I posted.

[ian_halsall]

pitch bend is different from other midi ccs - it uses lsb and msb to get more granularity - you can see this in live if you edit a midi clip and choose pitch bend - I think there are over 9000 values.

try volume for instance - 127 values

[stoersignal]

try volume for instance - 127 values

128 as usual

[ian_halsall]

The pedants are revolting.

[ikeaboy]

Wheels are kind of an old system by the standards of how technology progresses through time.

My question, just to use as an open discussion, is why hasn't there been a "new" wheel protocol?

I think about this as I turn a corner on my bicycle. As Raleigh response to my notion, it
does it in a very directional manor. Like for example, if I'm trying to bend round a 270 degree corner you can hear me hit the floor before I get there.

Why hasn't there been an update to the old circular wheel system; say a sphere?

We update frame styles all the time.

I think there needs to be a change in the roads to wheels as well. Like why aren't we running?

Thoughts?

(if any of the above information is false, im doing this all off the top of my head so feel free to yell at me! )

Fixed

[ikeaboy]

Don't blame us, you threw the ball in the air, we had to hit it! Basically Midi is one of the few reliable things out there. Getting all the equipment manufactures to support a standard like midi is like all the planets aligning on the same day you find matching socks in your drawer (just me?). Few remember mLAN. Try syncing 2 laptops over ethernet then try the same thing with twenty five year old drum machines, midi will grow a new halo.