$420 US for "full" upgrade?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:58 pm

I think perhaps teh people who were on the alpha may have their perception a little skewed by their proximity to it.
I'm sure Sampler is fantastic, I'm sure it's all innovative and lovely.

but so that you can see why I am not all fizzy with emotion over it - here is my current shopping list in order:

Fireface 400
core 2 duo desktop computer
new keyboard stands and equipment racks
Adam A7 monitors, possibly with Sub 8
camper van
acoustic treatment, bass traps and the like
continues in this vein for a long way

nowhere on that list features another softsynth, no matter how good. to get on that list things have to really bug me, to be necessary. It's not about cost so much as that list has a vague order of necessity.

I tend to make instruments both real-world and software, it's fun and I get the results I want. It also makes it very dificult for a softsynth to get on that list.

I have nothing against Abletons drive to create soft-synths of a high quality, as I don't mind Ferrari making high class sports cars.
I won't be buying one of those either, I want a camper van.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:07 am

i know very well Kontakt and love it, and being part of the alpha testers, i've also put my hands in Sampler.
and i can't really compare them.
each of them is good for what it does.
it's like having 2 guitars or 2 synths: lots of people do.

ok, so a few more details about kontakt vs sampler:
i find kontakt still useful for timestretching, working on individual zones, for its effects and its SOUND.
i like sampler because once again it integrates so well in Live, really easy to use and tweak. and it's got some sound design capabilities that kontakt doesn't (and vice-versa).

but keep in mind that i almost never use a sampler to emulate instruments, mapping keys and velocities, using sound libraries.
to me a sampler is more a sound design tool.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:13 am

Angstrom wrote:I think perhaps teh people who were on the alpha may have their perception a little skewed by their proximity to it.
I'm sure Sampler is fantastic, I'm sure it's all innovative and lovely.

but so that you can see why I am not all fizzy with emotion over it - here is my current shopping list in order:

Fireface 400

core 2 duo desktop computer

new keyboard stands and equipment racks

Adam A7 monitors, possibly with Sub 8

camper van

acoustic treatment, bass traps and the like

continues in this vein for a long way
nowhere on that list features another softsynth, no matter how good. to get on that list things have to really bug me, to be necessary. It's not about cost so much as that list has a vague order of necessity.

I tend to make instruments both real-world and software, it's fun and I get the results I want. It also makes it very dificult for a softsynth to get on that list.

I have nothing against Abletons drive to create soft-synths of a high quality, as I don't mind Ferrari making high class sports cars.
I won't be buying one of those either, I want a camper van.

hence the reason it's seperate to the upgrade

mke sure you beta it though - it's not like the others!

I didnt have any real interest in on either - but all the resynthesis stuff sounds incredible

but regardless, you'll definitely find the upgrade gives you alot

admittedly there are a few workflow things I was hoping for that arent there, but when you try it you'll clearly see why - alot of work has gone into all this really amazing group device and macro stuff and alot has happened to live now - it's definitely a big change

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:15 am

Angstrom wrote:I think perhaps teh people who were on the alpha may have their perception a little skewed by their proximity to it.
I'm sure Sampler is fantastic, I'm sure it's all innovative and lovely.

but so that you can see why I am not all fizzy with emotion over it

man, i think you'd have a reason to be annoyed if ableton had made this upgrade something like 200/250€, and had included the Sampler in it.
but they let us the choice of buying or not, or even later.

what you have now is a yearly upgrade for 99€, which includes great new features, which are in my opinion totally worth it.
i think last year's upgrade was 150€, right?
so this year it's cheaper, why complaining?

astronmr20 · Post by **astronmr20** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:24 am

jamief wrote:
rbro wrote:Am I figuring this out correctly? As a registered Live 5 user, if I want to upgrade to Live 6 and get Sampler and the EIC, I will need to get the boxed version (for the EIC) at $219 and then $199 for Sampler? That seems a bit harsh, no?
Corporate Mentality on Abletons part. They seem to have changed their ethos somewhat. I agree it,s harsh

God forbid there be any "quid pro quo" in the world. Everything should be free. Viva la revolution, comrade. Death to spies. Kill all capitalist pigs, yadda yadda.

Is 5.2 too buggy, and did they trick you into buying something that promised features it didn't deliver- then force you into an upgrade that would make it work?

I'm just glad it's not Logic/ Apple. I think the price is fair, after watching the video. It's going to save me $ I was about to spend on a sampler.. or I might choose not to buy the seperate "sampler" and still go with EWSQL. Could be a bit cheaper I agree, but the MARKET sets the prices. And the competition makes great software better, and keeps prices down. This is called capitalism. Welcome.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:32 am

I'm not annoyed or complaining, I'm explaining.
I've not complained about the separate price of Sampler anywhere, I said it was valid in my first post. But, I've mentioned that Ableton probably ought to release these things as VST to stay on level ground with the competition, but thats a reccomendation rather than a complaint.

I've stated in response to the original poter that buying the boxed version probably would be the best plan if he wants Sampler and that would indeed add up as he suggests.

That's not complaining because it won't affect me, I will be getting the 99€ download and asking for a hardcopy manual

I'm not upset or pissed off - I posted the above list simply to point out that a lot of the responses from Alpha testers were toward the "its amazing you must buy it or try it " end of the scale. Understandably.
I'm sure if someone lent me a vintage Les Paul for a while and then asked me if it was any good I would say the same. And I might even buy one if I didn't already have other plans for the cash.

it's a very small issue, but I wanted to be clear on this.

My priorities with Live lie in very specific areas, there are problems I need to overcome.
I like shiny new toys as much as the next guy, but the problems I must overcome are much more important. Granular sampling has never been a problem.
Many of my Live problems have been addressed by the new rack feature and the midi mapping/macro thing, although it seems that CC record in session is still not happening.
Anyway those two things are what atracts me to upgrade and I judge those to be worth €99

astronmr20 · Post by **astronmr20** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:37 am

Does anyone know if you will be able to set a tempo without automatically having it warp everything to that tempo?

I'm not sure how to word this...

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:38 am

ok, no prob angstrom, i misread you.
just one thing we -as beta testers- didn't have an idea of the pricing.
we where testing Live6 AND sampler without nowing that it was a separate product.
we just learnt it now.

i agree that 200€ is expensive for a sampler. kontakt is about 350€, so yeah, it's about the price of the market.

i'm not sure i'll buy it as soon as released, but i know that when i'll have the money for it, i'll do. like i did with the operator.

this Sampler really is the kind of tool that makes you want to do more and more and more music.
very inspiring...

sonsofthehounds · Post by **sonsofthehounds** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:43 am

as it stands live 5 has no major stumbling blocks other than the fact that i'm always max out the cpu on my powerbook too early into a track.

Hopefully live 6 will run shit hot on the dual core macbooks and by the time i can afford one and the software upgrade the prices of the macbooks has dropped or there has been a good speed bump in the lower models. By this point you would hope a lot of the plugs will be uni binary also.

I won't be purchasing the sampler, simpler does more than enough for me; it's ableton's next step in covering the bases...hence selling with the sample library....they want the product to appeal to as many people as possible, compete with the big boys.

i didn't expect the upgrade to have many surprises not that it really needs any as far as I'm concerned and after checking the movie it doesn't but I guess the work has been more on tightening the actual performance issues with 'hi-spec' macs we've been complaining about....hopefully it'll come through but right now ah'm still use my eco work flow and make live 5 work for me.....

yeah, could use more cpu overhead but i can wait....looking forward to reading the intial reports from testers.

inis · Post by **inis** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:59 am

Meef Chaloin wrote:why do they have to charge extra? Its shite, most sequencers come with a FREE synth & sampler

Well, I dont see you bitching at apple because logic doesnt have a dope view for triggerig clips?

I assume you understand the point. Every software has things that others dont. And there are some standard things out there, but whoever said live was standard.

The tool seems to be far more in depth that just some sampler.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:05 am

inis wrote:
Meef Chaloin wrote:why do they have to charge extra? Its shite, most sequencers come with a FREE synth & sampler
Well, I dont see you bitching at apple because logic doesnt have a dope view for triggerig clips?

I assume you understand the point. Every software has things that others dont. And there are some standard things out there, but whoever said live was standard.

The tool seems to be far more in depth that just some sampler.

live does come with a free sampler

and also Logic costs alot more than Live

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:24 am

forge wrote: 'and also Logic costs alot more than Live

I remember not so long ago, my brother paid over £500 for Logic's Space designer plugin. A month later they were giving it away as part of the Logic pro bundle.

Now thats something to moan at.

rbro · Post by **rbro** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:28 am

I think as a "compromise" they should at least offer the EIC as part of the download version, even if it's like 8GB or something. I can keep my computer online for a few days....

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:03 am

MSRP of Logic is $999.00 for a new user.

MSRP of SX is $599.00, no free sampler, but Halion is $399.00, so same price as Logic really.

MSRP of a boxed Ableton 6 with Sampler and Operator is $950 (unless I have this wrong).

And Logic still has a lot more plug ins and instruments included. Not complaining mind you (I don't use Logic anyway), just that my first thought when seeing the new prices was how expensive Live has become.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:27 am

Tarekith wrote: MSRP of a boxed Ableton 6 with Sampler and Operator is $950 (unless I have this wrong).

And Logic still has a lot more plug ins and instruments included. Not complaining mind you (I don't use Logic anyway), just that my first thought when seeing the new prices was how expensive Live has become.

That kinds of sticks in my craw. Compare what you get in Logic for that price to what you get in Live 6 for the same price and it's really absurd.

$420 US for "full" upgrade?

Re: $420 US for "full" upgrade?