OT... Saddam is executed. Right thing to do?

D K · Post by **D K** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:46 am

it's only to the benefit of the current us gov't that he is now dead without being in court for the rest of his natural life. dead men tell no tales.

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:48 am

knotkranky wrote:.... Saddam was a part of 911? ..... WTF

seriously, are they really still thinking that in the US???

Saddam had Feck all to do with 9/11

continuous · Post by **continuous** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:00 am

I don't like the way that this went down... earlier today u.s. military authorities were denying the handover of saddam to iraqi officials and then very quickly... before New Years and during a holiday in the region they cut to the chase. I don't feel sorry for him, though I have heard he was abused as a child, but this could very possibly make things worse.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:01 am

forge wrote:
knotkranky wrote:.... Saddam was a part of 911? ..... WTF
seriously, are they really still thinking that in the US???

Saddam had Feck all to do with 9/11

Exactly right. I'm poking holes in its justification. If he did have something to do with it(and he didn't) And though our administration still maintains he did. why bury the the unproven collaborator forever. It makes absolutely no sense. None. Just 100% wrong.

continuous · Post by **continuous** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:09 am

Correct me if wrong...

There were two sets of charges in his trial... the 148 murders he was found guilty of but also the accusation of attempted genocide? Strange form of justice to just cut it off midway and basically execute him immediately.

Well... the most important question I suppose is... where things will go from here?

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:07 am

continuous wrote: Well... the most important question I suppose is... where things will go from here?

yeah I was about to write exactly that - that is what the debate should really be about

I just read a quite disturbing article in the paper about it. Firstly the whole issue of the proper course of justice being followed (as in, the opportunity to weed out other prominent instigators of some of the nasty stuff that happened) then most importantly the whole sunni/shi'ite thing and how basically the only thing this is likely to do is help the steady slide into civil war

they then reckoned it wont be too far off that a shi'ite dictator as brutal as saddam ends up in power - the way this was handled and the judge getting sacked for not towing the government line already doesnt sound that democratic

the current climate of violence is certainly not the best incubator for peace

I just feel terrible for the Iraqi people - I mean sure it wasnt great under saddam but it's a fuck of alot worse now for most people

these neo-cons are very very stupid, careless, reckless people

selfishly, I'm just thankful it's not like vietnam that we could have actually been drafted up for - I cant imagine being drafted up for something I am so disgusted by - fighting for your country's freedom from invasion is one thing, but being asked to go and risk your life for something you are so completely opposed to is obscene

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:12 am

forge wrote:
eyeknow wrote:I wondered how long it would take to get the bush thing going........
well...who created this situation? Bush is the reason it's being discussed

besides, been a while since there was a political debate round here!

PLEASE! saddam was killing and torturing way before even the first bush was in office

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:20 am

D K wrote:Shoe-shine-boy has been proven to have killed hundreds of thousands, and some of the torture techniques are really quite pleasent as well

you talking about bush or saddam?
your shoeshine boy's shoes fit both their feet!!!!

hilarious!

come on man, you can do better

Again, remember.....saddam was getting busy with the mini-hitler thing before even the first bush was in office.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:27 am

forge wrote:
eyeknow wrote:
forge wrote:well It seems a bit like the people executing are no better really

but we already knew that

are they trying to set an example?? if so what?

in fact the Bush administration could safely be said to have caused more deaths than saddam ever did and they'll never be executed for that - not by anyone
What would you do with him forge? Put him in anger managment group? I mean really.....left can only be so far before there's no more left to go!

As far as ausie killing more........riddle me this......other than the aborigines, wasn't Austrailia founded as a prison? So, wouldn't it make sense there would be plenty of deaths even if there was no death penalty? And still, I don't believe it's more....but that is an opinion in otherwise facts.

well...I'm not sure what that crazy and ignorant Australia comment was supposed to mean (kind of like saying all of you yanks are Puritans in black hats with buckles) but...

Our history books (and seems to be fact due to figures on the web) is that australia was a prison colony imposed by the british about a hundred years ago. Am I wrong about that? Anyways, if it was founded as a prison colony, wouldn't that account for deaths......or are you refering to very recently? If so, my bad and I'm not up on my "current" ausie info........

gerard · Post by **gerard** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:57 am

what's right what's wrong...

what's true what's false...

Saddam's a bead on a hot stone (ain't that a funny translation from german!), look at all those dictators around the world. And I think many people in different cultures want/need them.
Someone here has talked about moral grounds and about how we are no better than he is because we execute him. I think you are right. Truth is we don't want him and I'm happy if he dies(well actually I don't really care). But in my head I'm like "ah the bastard got what he deserved".
But again I live in Wonderland because I hate all religion institutions and I'd love to see them fall apart, except maybe Buddhism, they don't step on to many people's feet, although I think many people need them.
Imagine a world with no religions...I only wonder what other grounds based on moral we would have found to lead wars.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:10 am

Its all clintons fault

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:12 am

I can relate to that.

Trust me, I'm part of the "people suck" equation.......haven't we (the world) seen enough to know better? Why are there any saddams in the first place!

That being said, humanity is doomed..........and yes, religion (not to be confused with sprituality) is a HUGE factor in the demise of man.....

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:16 am

hoffman2k wrote:Its all clintons fault

HA! very nice

forge · Post by **forge** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:47 am

eyeknow wrote:
Our history books (and seems to be fact due to figures on the web) is that australia was a prison colony imposed by the british about a hundred years ago. Am I wrong about that? Anyways, if it was founded as a prison colony, wouldn't that account for deaths......or are you refering to very recently? If so, my bad and I'm not up on my "current" ausie info........

well I'm just not really sure what it has to do with the price of eggs in China... it seems like you're going off on a kind of weird tangent there

it seems your argument is that because the country I live in was once a prison colony a couple of hundred years ago that means I should shut up about Saddam for some reason??

Well in that case, you should shut up too you tobacco growing virginian puritan!

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:07 am

Ultimately, this may have provided some sort of settlement for blood lusting Iraqis (indeed, assuming most of them wanted him to be put to death, we just can't rely on media representations of them.) On the other hand, it will only cause greater instability for Iraqi people in both the short and the long term. 'Saddam' has been thrust into matrydom and will now live on in the minds of those who commit further atrosities in his name. President Bush claimed that (or whoever wrote the speech):-

"[Saddams excecution is] an important milestone on Iraq's course to becoming a democracy that can govern, sustain and defend itself, and be an ally in the war on terror."

Saddams trial and execution was a farce from start to finish and operated without any real lack of transparency. It has the bloody fingerprints of the whitehouse all over it and Saddams death has been used as political captial at home, because of the absolute failure in every single respect of the Iraq invasion.

Moreover, precisely how Saddams death will affect the future of 'democracy' in Iraq is beyond me, it seems clear that it is only going to fuel futher sectarian violence. Indeed Saddam was a ruthless dictator, but if you look at it, those incharge of the US have killed many more just as ruthlessly for the same ends, money and power. This whole thing sickens me.