Ableton Forum

...some stuff is missing in the live manual...

and the jokes are horrible

misteron wrote:

gjm wrote:Although I have no doubt that it is well written for those of you who already have a base understanding of terms, concepts and workings of DAW software, it is not written or intended for people who do not fit those above catagories.

Live is the first DAW and one of the first pieces of software I've ever touched.
And in fact I know 2 or 3 others like me who feel the same.

pdf or print, same diff for me
'cept of course u can't press ctrl+f in print version

Congrats, there are always exceptions to the rule. I have been using CAD 3D drafting and solid modeling software professionally for several years spitting out cut files for CNC routers and plans for marine design, furniture and houses. Compared to this type software, my experience to date is that Lives manual (I'm on 6LE) is weak and frustrating for those "getting into" a DAW (supposed to be entry level right?). There is not even a glossary of terms .

It's probably just me (truth hurts) but my recent work experience depended heavily on multiple logical linear pathways of plan development and construction sequences. Organizing staff, trades, construction, finances to meet deadlines involves some decent "global" and flexible thinking skills. I'm fine with the thinking behind this sort of stuff. But I have never been so frustrated by such a entry level piece of software and its logic (and all the add on stuff like controllers etc) as I have with Live. The manual does not overly help you (me) find the 'hooks' I need to organize my head and approach the software with confidence.

I am sure it is as wonderful as you all say. I have yet to be convinced.

have to see it's a bit of a negative for me too - don't get me wrong, Dennis has done a great job of improving it, but it doesnt go into anywhere near enough detail - there are quite a few things that don;t get explained at all and so as a reference it's not much help there because where else can you go to find out?

Probably a 7/10 for me. Not bad, better than say Roland, or Akai, but not as good as Line6 or Mackie IMO. I'd probably give Logic 8's a 7 as well, much better than the previous versions, and somewhat easy to read considering how much it has to cover.

Personally I think Ableton could do a better job explaining some of the warping concepts (like how to do it for newbies) and some of the instrument chapters are pretty short for the complexity of the instrument (Sampler).

gjm wrote: But I have never been so frustrated by such a entry level piece of software as I have with Live.

who said live is "entry level"?

it's a pretty complex piece of software

if you want a hard to read manuel, go grab a 303 and try to program that thing via the manuel.. uggg..

doc holiday wrote:

gjm wrote: But I have never been so frustrated by such a entry level piece of software as I have with Live.

who said live is "entry level"?

it's a pretty complex piece of software

He's talking about 6Le....

I''ll admit I feel sorry for people just picking up live. It has gotten very deep over the years.. I got on at 1.01 so I'v had lots of time to get to grips with everything.

but i love it

doc holiday wrote:

gjm wrote: But I have never been so frustrated by such a entry level piece of software as I have with Live.

who said live is "entry level"?

it's a pretty complex piece of software

Ableton quote (from the box)

Step into computor-based music with more fun and less hassle. Live 6LE provides a simple interface and the pro-level features you need for recording, songwriting, producing, remixing and DJing.

What else are you supposed to believe when you read this sort of stuff. It's been 5 months of fcuking around for me. The forum has provided more information than the manual has (look at my post count). RTFM is NOT the 'one size fits all solution'. Let me reiterate, not only am I trying to learn basic software recording, I am also learning terms, concepts, work flow, VST's, midi, latency and buffers, CPU usuage, HD meltdowns, library path and management, external controller surfaces, usb vs FW, midi and audio track set up, audio interfaces, mic's to name just a few selected topics.

I am happy you find the manual helpful

doc holiday wrote:I''ll admit I feel sorry for people just picking up live. It has gotten very deep over the years.. I got on at 1.01 so I'v had lots of time to get to grips with everything.

but i love it

I feel sorry for people who think Live is hard to use!!


/just trolling on you gjm.

Tone Deft wrote:

doc holiday wrote:I''ll admit I feel sorry for people just picking up live. It has gotten very deep over the years.. I got on at 1.01 so I'v had lots of time to get to grips with everything.

but i love it

I feel sorry for people who think Live is hard to use!!


/just trolling on you gjm.

You got me TD, just bitchin today, got my period. Like I say, it's probably all my fault. I'll take responsibility. I keep thinking that the manual is supposed to be a problem solver as well as outlining the contents of the software. I learnt 2 CAD and 1 solid modeling systems from scratch, just the manual, no forums existed for the products at the time. (I admit paying for a 1hr tutorial with someone where we sat down with a project and talked face to face about the geometry that needed to be created) but that was the extent of my coaching. I have had some great help by people from the forum via pm's, I am in awe of some of the collective knowledge.

It's Friday here...fcuked off,bitcn FRIDAY I'm a twit

man, I outtwat you in the best of my moods.

for me the help box is the real gem of Live, I loved that thing learning, still do.

IMO the best way to learn it to answer a bunch of questions, then you REALLY know what you don't know and what parts of Live you haven't tried yet. then DO the stuff in the tips n tricks sticky.


best help files ever? the old Borland C compiler, I learned C in a summer with that software.

Of all the manuals I own the Live manual is hands down the best. Nice look, nice organization, actual comprehensible sentence structure and spiral binding to boot.


But like others have said it's odd that there's not an index entry for everything on the menu.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum is the manual for Arturia Analog Factory. They should call the manual WTF Factory.

gjm wrote:Let me reiterate, not only am I trying to learn basic software recording, I am also learning terms, concepts, work flow, VST's, midi, latency and buffers, CPU usuage, HD meltdowns, library path and management, external controller surfaces, usb vs FW, midi and audio track set up, audio interfaces, mic's to name just a few selected topics.

Sounds like u're trying to learn to much at once tbf.

misteron wrote:

gjm wrote:Let me reiterate, not only am I trying to learn basic software recording, I am also learning terms, concepts, work flow, VST's, midi, latency and buffers, CPU usuage, HD meltdowns, library path and management, external controller surfaces, usb vs FW, midi and audio track set up, audio interfaces, mic's to name just a few selected topics.

Sounds like u're trying to learn to much at once tbf.

I am curious to know how it would be different for any total n00b.

Here is the slippery slope....

One day a few months ago... letsus records ours tunes....
stumble accross M-Audio Fast Track USB...$$$$
....we spend two weeks installing the fucker.... Ableton HQ come to the rescue in the end.....
...what's this? comes with Live lite..... let's me save work, PT's demo does not...
..We goes and buys Live 6LE to get more than lite features but less than full version... (me thinks its must be for learners...) $$$$$$
...we buy a mic $$$$
...a mic stand..$$
We loads er up...Damn... HD indicator sending me morse code...
..manual suggests external HD...plenty of forumites concur... my 5400rpm jobby on older laptop not up to scratch....
....We looks for HD's...., and we looks, and looks , and looks (size, speed, usb?esata?,fw400? fw800? bad reviews, good reviews)...oh FUCK, we buy two's of them.... we find lots of people with ugly nobackup stories....$$$$$$$$$$
...we gets them home.... HD light still fckin winkin at me,.....
....oh shit only 512mb of RAM, just like the box says I need... system is using some for graphics.... FUCKFUCKFUCK..we's goes and buys more RAM..$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ...
....we wind the lappy up again, load 3 clips from the library,,, and oh fuck someone give me a blow job....the CPU light fancies me now ...pops and crakles galore....
...we cry in the corner
....forumite comes to the rescue with fckin awesome advice on buffers and latency.... makes difference
....we wants to buy a keyboard controler..... we search forum....we start a help me thread......
..we buys Axiom 49....$$$$$$$$$$$$
...we installs it, downloads live pack, looks at tutorial on youtube, perform system dump... FFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCKKKKKKK...no sound.
Meanwhile all through this time we are reading the manual, asking dumb questions to long suffering forumites via pm, discovering another system block (oh it depends on which order you plug your usb gear in )
...we call forumites on the phone....nice guy
....we read forum... we get sucked into OT conversations....
...we start to get inferiority complex
....we look at another daw....
... we still thinks live must be good in the end...
HOLY SHIT 500+ posts and no music... FUCK ME



...can anyone relate?