Here's a laptop.

Sibanger · Post by **Sibanger** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:01 am

abort wrote:The tablet is built for a right handed person ...Stupid, No one ever thinks about us! We always have to pay extra to get it for us.

Always the coolest mouse 's never available for left handed.

Power tools always have a switch on the left for the thumb to switch off/on.

I thought they still killed you left handed freaks at birth.

How did you get through?

pilcrow · Post by **pilcrow** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:28 pm

Sibanger wrote:
abort wrote:The tablet is built for a right handed person ...Stupid, No one ever thinks about us! We always have to pay extra to get it for us.

Always the coolest mouse 's never available for left handed.

Power tools always have a switch on the left for the thumb to switch off/on.
I thought they still killed you left handed freaks at birth.

How did you get through?

And why do you think they call it the "right" hand?

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:33 pm

I love that red clit-mouse thing on the middle of the lenovos....
kinky...

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:28 pm

3dot... wrote:I love that red clit-mouse thing on the middle of the lenovos....
kinky...

The clit mouse! I love it

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:12 pm

IBM trumps Apple. Under 3 grand for a quad laptop that kills the Mackbook Pro speed wise. As for vista it ain't that bad, in fact it is good in many ways. Now if people who make software for windows would only WAKE UP and start building software that used the hardware that has been out for SEVERAL YEARS that would be a treat. I love how windows puts out 64 bit operating systems and all people the making software pretend that it is just not there. And then Microsoft gets shit for building an OS that has no support. Lame. I makes me sad to know that they are putting out windows 7 with 32 bit support. They ought to put an end to that with vista.

sroom3000 · Post by **sroom3000** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:58 pm

why do most PC laptops still look like it's 1996? U.G.L.Y, you ain't got no alibi

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:56 pm

Mike, I agree with you. I am not an Apple fanboy, but just realistic that under the current conditions that Mac and OSX are the best way to go for music making.

You are right that the vendors have a big part in Vista's failure, as they are not writing the drivers for 64 bit or putting much effort into it. However, I have also heard it said that Microsoft did not give the vendors the o/s with much time to develop anything before release. And now those vendors are hedging their bets, because there is already talk of another o/s coming, so why bother developing for Vista. My audio interface and MIDI controller currently do not have 64 bit Vista drivers, my audio interface only just got 32 bit Vista drivers and there are only XP drivers for my MIDI controller. However, both have Leopard OSX drivers.

PCs are for gaming and office productivity, i.e. Word and Excel. Microsoft have made no effort since Win 98 to improve MIDI, whereas Apple brought in Mac OSX and developed CoreMIDI, which has been proven to be more stable and accurate than any Windows alternative. Microsoft do finally bring a low latency capable driver to the table in WaveRT but no one wants to touch it.

Microsoft surrendered the DAW market to Apple years ago. The vast majority of studios use macs and more and more home users. Buying a quad core PC might get you more frames per second for a lower cost for playing Halo 3 but in terms of getting music made, it is just one problem after the next. Pity, as XP was a decent enough DAW platform. But your hardware is only as strong as the software and drivers supporting it.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:11 pm

I hear ya but almost all the people I know that are working on any platform other than Protools use PC's in there production studios. Oh and logic is obviously mac. I also heard qute different when it came to how long vista was out for devolipers to work with. Something silly like a year in fact. Companies like Roland/Edirol for example came out with vista 32 bit and 64 bit drivers the very same day as the vista put on the market just to prove it. Also I know that many people love to hate vista but I run it on two of my computer every day with no more issues than xp and in many cases less issues. There is a little tweaking that I had to do at the very begining in order to get rid of the security features that I did not need to use but after that it has been smooth. I sure is nice to look at as well. I am not interested in the mac vs. pc debate as I think that they are both great options. I do think that mac has it when it comes to the 64 bit issue, hence people that need massive amounts of ram will get better support for osx. Mac still will always run protools better i would think but that is another issue. Pick the software you love and then buy the computer system that runs it best! After all we buy our computers to run our applications.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:20 am

Yes - I know of people running SOnar 7 and Cubase 4.1 on PC platforms with Vista 64 because they are lucky to have the drivers and they are delighted to be able to access 8 GB of Ram and have their quads/octacores working well. Edirol are an exception to the rule unfortunately. M-Audio are only just beta testing, many other platforms have sporadic support for some interfaces, some are using it as an excuse to drop solid items from their product line.

MOst pro studios I know of only run Pro Tools or Logic

More home recordists are using Mac too, given that it can run these programs, and when you get Logic STudio 8 at $499, many people are leaving windows and taking the plunge for Mac. Cubase and Sonar are 300 dollars more expensive, and you get a lot less in the box (esp. Cubase). Logic Studio, with Soundtrack Pro for audio editing, waveburner for burning red book compliant CDs, plus it's myriad of instruments and FX and newly designed interface just represents amazing value. Yes, it is a loss leader to bring people to Mac and to put pressure on Digital Performer, Cubase and PTLE on Mac, but still, exceptional value.

Anyway, the point if, I will never know the exact truth of Microsoft and the 3rd party support, all I know is that it is all over the place and I don't want to have to buy new audio interfaces and controllers just to use Vista.

Also, my personal experience of Vista (32 bit Vista Business) is terrible, My wife has it and I'm forever having to try and fix it and some things will still not work right, even after clean reinstallations - I'm talking about elements of Microsoft Office here too, not just 3rd party applications, but every day the error list and incompatibililty list and 'this application has a performance issue related to a corrupt/missing file or driver which will slow performance' (on MS Outlook 2007) is just so annoying. I think MIXED is the best way to describe Vista performance right now, if you have it configured nicely and have the drivers, then it is fine but many do not and are having problems and most of these issues did not exist in their XP installations.

ground_control · Post by **ground_control** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:31 am

Jesus, what forum am I on? This is almost like a polite discussion, with well-reasoned, cogently argued points made by both sides.

I'm scared.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:57 am

yeah, where's titbag or bounce in this thread !

abort · Post by **abort** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:11 am

Sibanger wrote:
abort wrote:The tablet is built for a right handed person ...Stupid, No one ever thinks about us! We always have to pay extra to get it for us.

Always the coolest mouse 's never available for left handed.

Power tools always have a switch on the left for the thumb to switch off/on.
I thought they still killed you left handed freaks at birth.

How did you get through?

What ever, stupid right handers. You could never do the things we left handers do.

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:27 am

leedsquietman wrote:Mike, I agree with you. I am not an Apple fanboy, but just realistic that under the current conditions that Mac and OSX are the best way to go for music making.

thats a pretty broad claim.

i can build a perfectly stable Live Daw for $700 Aus (quad core, 4gb, 1TB HD), using XP. why would i spend 2 times that money for the same or lower hardware from Apple? especially if you spend most of your time in the Live interface, what does it matter what OS it runs on?

You want stability in any DAW? then use a dedicated machine (or at least OS installation) for music. Every person Ive got to do this is still going trouble free years later, Mac or PC.

agreeance on vista though, its still half baked. give it another year and it will be fine. XP sucked as well until SP2.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:52 am

ground_control wrote:Jesus, what forum am I on? This is almost like a polite discussion, with well-reasoned, cogently argued points made by both sides.

I'm scared.

Ok I give up apple computers are better than pc's. And I will use PC because it is what I know and what I like. I build em good and they run well. And even though I make a living using PC for music it fails to make me a "pro". I also will always never be a real pro because I use this program that is a total joke, any pro will tell you for sure if you ask them. The sound mix engine sucks it has this thin sound and well it wont even export an OMF file! Dam I can hardly even remember what it is called, oh ya it is called Ableton Live my fave bit of software in the land.

Back to the point of the thread and my comment. This laptop is way faster and cheaper and offers more features than the current mac pro. Vista is Vist love it hate it what ever.

Lets start another lame ass conversation about how much computers suck and do that all day long in place of actually making music with the fantastic tools that we have at hand. In fact well where at it lets debate 44.1 vs. 96Khz and analog Vs. Software and we will be sure to never make another track ever again

no let's not

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:34 am

XP was fine on SP1 for me, in fact SP2 initially did some very bad things like break firewire which required a hotfix.

Yes, XP is great. BUt it won't be around, so building some 700 dollar super computer for XP might be feasible now, but it's not going to last 2 long before you will be forced into Vista or the next o/s because any new product coming out next year probably won't support XP. Maybe Live 8 will but Live 9 - forget it.

Very funny. All I'm saying is Mac has the best combination of hardware and software right now. I didn't say it was the cheapest option, it clearly isn;t but those people who are building quad core PC towers to run 64 bit for way less than a Mac Pro are often running into difficulties because of lack of driver support and/or Vista. Vista is SP1 is not in as good shape as XP was in SP1, that is for sure. And unless your devices have the drivers to support Vista 64, then you have to buy new devices and when you add that in, then the cost and hassle makes a Mac Pro look like a sensible option.

The other thing about Mac is Logic. I've been using Logic 8 studio at work and I just want to sell my PC gear and Cubase and get a Mac to run Live and Logic. I never was a fan of Logic much but the new interface makes a huge difference. And unless you're running hackintosh successfully (many are not and it is not supported, so even if it is going good now, if it fries your computer down the way, you have no support).

Anyway, you're right. Change the record. I have always been a PC advocate until now but each platform has their strengths and I;m not going to be a platform Nazi and fight to the death over it. Use whatever works for you.