Shifting to LINUX, leaving ableton live....

rsaulo · Post by **rsaulo** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:10 pm

xh9o wrote:
mdk wrote:arent interested in how you get on

anyone taking time for talkin here wants to help. but not everyone can see the perspective for longterm in-depth work with live running under wine or using energy xt as sequencer. though you will get something out of this, much depending on the style of music you do.

The musician, or DJ, or wherever you want to be, or think that you are is not direct related to the tool or software that you use. If you have the concepts about what you want, you will ALWAYS HAVE more than one choise to do your work, what i´m talking in this post is that FOR MY WORK I really love live, but as I cannot run it on linux, I will switch to another software that WORKS FOR ME and the final work will be done OK.

Nobody listen to an track will care about how DAW or Software or OS or Devices you have used to make the music. It´s the final work that matters, not the tool.

If I can make music with another OS/Software spending less money, OK for me, IF you NEED and MAC/LIVE and agree to pay for it go on!!!

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:32 pm

rsaulo wrote:
xh9o wrote:
mdk wrote:arent interested in how you get on

anyone taking time for talkin here wants to help. but not everyone can see the perspective for longterm in-depth work with live running under wine or using energy xt as sequencer. though you will get something out of this, much depending on the style of music you do.
The musician, or DJ, or wherever you want to be, or think that you are is not direct related to the tool or software that you use. If you have the concepts about what you want, you will ALWAYS HAVE more than one choise to do your work, what i´m talking in this post is that FOR MY WORK I really love live, but as I cannot run it on linux, I will switch to another software that WORKS FOR ME and the final work will be done OK.

Nobody listen to an track will care about how DAW or Software or OS or Devices you have used to make the music. It´s the final work that matters, not the tool.

If I can make music with another OS/Software spending less money, OK for me, IF you NEED and MAC/LIVE and agree to pay for it go on!!!

Great post. Of topic a bit, but something to remember if I do end up really broke this year. THough I love Live, nobody but me can tell the difference between a song started in Live or Logic or DP etc.

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:38 pm

rsaulo wrote:It´s the final work that matters, not the tool.

what pathetic bullshit. tools matter as they inspire or regulate creativity. i can´t work the same way in cubase or even logic i would do in live, its quite different and personal, epsecially when you improve much by yourself. different story when you just put parts together the way you think you know by it by listening to industry standards ("regular dance pop song"). then yeah, it really doesn´t matter so much.

and finally, i on´t know what way is the best for you. i hust laid out why i laugh about people running unix emm, ubuntu linux on a dell notebook for making music. so what, prove me wrong.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:18 pm

xh9o wrote: what pathetic bullshit. tools matter as they inspire or regulate creativity.

They don't, t the main thing is better tools just help to write songs quicker, they can't write the song for you.
I don't sound any different in Live, Logic, Digital Performer etc. and you would be hard pressed to listen to my music and tell me things like "well it sounds like you started this one in Logic, then moved it over to live once it was fleshed out." Though you could easily point to a Moog bass and an Absynth pad.
It's still about the instruments you use. Live is the closest to being an instrument, as it's kind of like a sampler itself, but IMO their inclusion of Sampler into their own arsenal of embedded synths answers the question as to whether it's a sampler or performance instrument at this point. Basically what I'm saying is Live is a great tool for getting me to realize my sound, but it doesn't color my sound much, which is cool really.

On the original subject, Linux is looking better every day for music. I hope Live eventually gets a Linux port. I'm planning on moving over to Linux some day, and it would be cool if Live and the Suite moved with me!

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:25 pm

Machinesworking wrote:They don't, t the main thing is better tools just help to write songs quicker, they can't write the song for you.

well i said: inspiring. inspiring means supporting, and thats quite the opposite of taking all over. but taking over as much beaurocracy mouseclick work as possible can´t be a bad thing. and thats where - the modular - live is million lightyears ahead those old fashioned - timelined - sequencers. maybe its the problem of todays music production whose products have become very lame and predictable (for those few who know a difference between music and tits video featured imitation), that too much is done that old way while times around have changed.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:01 pm

xh9o wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:They don't, t the main thing is better tools just help to write songs quicker, they can't write the song for you.

well i said: inspiring. inspiring means supporting, and thats quite the opposite of taking all over. but taking over as much beaurocracy mouseclick work as possible can´t be a bad thing. and thats where - the modular - live is million lightyears ahead those old fashioned - timelined - sequencers. maybe its the problem of todays music production whose products have become very lame and predictable (for those few who know a difference between music and tits video featured imitation), that too much is done that old way while times around have changed.

What's odd about it is it's a step forward and back really. A lot of earlier sequencers were really geared towards pattern based sequencing, they let you assemble songs in chunks IE verse, chorus, break etc. which in a way is similar to Session View. It's the main reason you still hear of certain electronic musicians using Atari with Notator, MIDI timing as well, but lately Live and the others have little or not jitter so....

I wouldn't sound that different in Energy XT, it would just take me longer to arrange a song once the patterns were done. Live makes that part super easy.
Though I was hoping for folder tracks in Arrangement view to make it total pie.

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:16 pm

Machinesworking wrote:it would just take me longer to arrange a song once the patterns were done.

exactly. and thats why it probably would sound different

(cause you still don´t have more time. i get excited by music that feels like floating, that does not sound like regular office work. even office/computer work can be extraordinary and imho live does support that refreshing way.)

but hell, i hate smartassing. get your kicks!

adventurepants_ · Post by **adventurepants_** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:49 pm

xh9o wrote:
rsaulo wrote:you cannot run live stable in "production" environments IMHO, windows XP is DEATH, all new notebooks come with Windows VISTA OEM, WITHOUT XP drivers, VISTA SUCKS, so IMHO abes can deliver an linux version, but until this happens and I cannot spend many dollars I prefer change my software packages to something similar.

first. sorry i don´t need anothe hysteric linuxfan-"article". i would like linux if it would be conistent and therefore really usable. but thats the price of open source, you let in much crappy code and everyone talks for himself the most. and music making in linux is fuckin depressing.

regarding the quotet: this, microsofts desperate attitude towards spreading their vista disease, is really a big problem. as a gentle reaction i use a pirate copy of their better systems, windows 2000 or windows xp (really a stable, fast and flexible, professional system). and a not-so-new notebook that is compatible with that, and a desktop pc built up myself. nearly every component available still upports xp, and therefore those manufacturers provide good drivers.

dude if you cant be bothered to pay for Windows, then dont try to justify it as 'a gentle reaction' to Vista or nonsense like that. just take responsibility for the fact that youd rather pirate it than pay for it.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:03 pm

xh9o wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:it would just take me longer to arrange a song once the patterns were done.

exactly. and thats why it probably would sound different

(cause you still don´t have more time. i get excited by music that feels like floating, that does not sound like regular office work. even office/computer work can be extraordinary and imho live does support that refreshing way.)

but hell, i hate smartassing. get your kicks!

TBH I hardly ever write a song in a day, in fact I've only kept one song that was 95% done in one day. It's just not how I work, and honestly though I love Live I don't see Live as being the fast food DAW for quick arrangements. The fastest environment for songwriting I've worked in was Logic 6, 7 broke that with bugs, and 8 broke it with 'enhancements' that hindered my workflow. The song written in a day is noticeably simpler in rhythmic structure and less densely layered than the ones that took a longer time. That's the main reason for the speed of arrangement, not the DAW I was using.

Live offers mainly the old school paradigm of working with sequences as scenes, and though to most that's a new concept etc. it's actually pretty old, and again, DAWs don't affect my sound, instruments and FX do. I owe far more to my old Moog than I do to Live, Logic, or Digital Performer. Though I admire and respect Ableton, it's the sequences that matter, and that's all me, not them.

I understand your view that a good workflow inspires creativity though.

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:06 pm

adventurepants_ wrote:just take responsibility for the fact that youd rather pirate it than pay for it.

cry me a river.

LoopStationZebra · Post by **LoopStationZebra** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:07 pm

Funny, because Live has dramatically changed the way that I approach writing a piece. It's also let me fully embrace 100% improve for live performing - something that was always daunting before this great bit of software found it's way to my MacBook.

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:07 pm

Machinesworking wrote:it's the sequences that matter, and that's all me, not them.

sure, you´re god and even the sun is not burning your skin but your skin decides to get browned by itself. yeah fetch your self esteem wherever you need to.

xh9o · Post by **xh9o** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:09 pm

LoopStationZebra wrote:Funny, because Live has dramatically changed the way that I approach writing a piece. It's also let me fully embrace 100% improve for live performing - something that was always daunting before this great bit of software found it's way to my MacBook.

dito. i was always tired of music production software easily, before it came.

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:23 pm

I'm waiting for the google android os, to get off the phones and netbooks, and dominate the PC, Lappy market.

Until then, your best bet is Mac.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:24 pm

xh9o wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:it's the sequences that matter, and that's all me, not them.

sure, you´re god and even the sun is not burning your skin but your skin decides to get browned by itself. yeah fetch your self esteem wherever you need to.

If you don't write your own songs, if you play audio clips in Session View, and presets on FX and instruments, then what you say makes sense.

I'm sorry you can't write your own music without the wonderful Live to do it for you.