Ableton Forum

FrankieP wrote:I was really excited at first, then I watched the "new features" videos and felt very underwhelmed. Watched it again the second time and felt very disappointed. There's nothing there that I couldn't do with another DAW and other tools. I guess the Push controller is the biggest draw for a lot of people. Then I remembered that I do have an APC40 that has not been used for almost a year now. The audio to midi feature is nice. But I already have Melodyne DNA for that. The Glue? I had been using Cytomic's for 3 years now. Don't get me wrong, I love Live8 for what it is now and will probably stick to it for a while. It has been stable for me. But I did, and still wish that it supported dual monitors and floating windows. That simplest of features would have probably draw me in more than what is offered with Live 9 right now. Max4Live? Not interested. I'm not a tweaker and have no time and desire to do any sort of programming devices and such. IMO, it'll just slows down the workflow. So yeah, I guess i'm not just a "lil disappointed".

You do have to give Ableton some credit for the amount of effort they put in to figuring out how to market these arguably underwhelming features as some groundbreaking revolutionary saviors of music making for fanboys to salivate over, complete with a keynote speech straight out of Steve Jobs' playbook, even if it did take them over 3 years. They could have left out the hipster blog site redesign and kept to its minimalistic aesthetics though.

kent_sandvik wrote:For me the nice Live 8 to Live 8 Suite to 9 suite upgrade for Live 8 users was a brilliant marketing strategy. Until today when they hiked up the price $100... Now it's pretty sad.

Yesterday I was, "through the roof excited." I thought, "Ableton has finally come to their senses, and now I can buy Suite for $239." Ran home with my paycheck today and.. WOW!! Reality has set back in.

I do not want M4L, I do not want the Ableton Instruments. I do not like that Ableton continues to widen the gap between Standard and Suite; for example in v9 Standard will be minus by 3 dsp effects, and in v10? I am interested in the drum sound libraries, but there are a zillion of them out there.

I own Sonar, Reaper, Renoise, and Live ( Lite 5, Full Versions 6 and 7 ) and I am also interested in buying either Cubase or Digital Performer. ( Mostly because I've never, "fallen in love with Reaper," Renoise is a tracker, my Live versions are 32 bit, and Sonar is a bit buggy -- like all of Cakewalk's stuff. )

Now.. I really would have considered upgrading to Live 9 at yesterdays $239 price.. Even that is very expensive for, "an upgrade." But absolutely no consideration will be given by me at the adjusted price. The adjusted price is: Exactly what I paid for Live 6. I had a Live 5 lite license! So iirc $320 is what I paid to upgrade to a full version of the software. Now Ableton chooses to widen the gap between the full version that I paid for, and their new full version.

Ableton Live has maximum 12 sends. Renoise = unlimited. Sonar = unlimited. Reaper = unlimited. Digital Performer = unlimited. Cubase = unlimited.

Starting with sends, and going through feature by feature, you can really see where the other DAWs begin to outshine Ableton is almost every single aspect of production. Sonar X2 is going to 348 khz on the Sample rate.. Has almost 10 different dithering algorithms, and comes with every effect you can possibly imagine including, "session view." but in Sonar they call it the matrix.

Ah.. I don't want to get into a whole rant.. I can't really explain how I feel without continuing to write at least another 1000 words. How I feel I have been treated as a customer who has been here since version 5, how I feel about the widening gap between suite and standard, and how I feel about Max, and I could go on...

The most simple things are this: I jumped ship years ago and Renoise is now my main software. Its not that I am complaining over $100; yesterday I had a, "hot button," moment when I saw a v8 + free v9 price of $239. The fact is, that was a glitch. The price really about $320, ( the exact number I do not remember now. ) $320 + $75 = Digital Performer 8.. I need a solid daw for what I am doing with my music. Sonar X1 is awesome, but rather than upgrade to X2, I am seriously considering DP 8.

Maybe it could have been, "a new love affair with Ableton." But its not going to be..

Whatever..



I'll be on the Renoise forums if anybody needs me. See you guys later

humnumb wrote:You do have to give Ableton some credit for the amount of effort they put in to figuring out how to market these arguably underwhelming features as some groundbreaking revolutionary saviors of music making for fanboys to salivate over, complete with a keynote speech straight out of Steve Jobs' playbook, even if it did take them over 3 years. They could have left out the hipster blog site redesign and kept to its minimalistic aesthetics though.

That job was done with Push...

kent_sandvik wrote:For me the nice Live 8 to Live 8 Suite to 9 suite upgrade for Live 8 users was a brilliant marketing strategy. Until today when they hiked up the price $100... Now it's pretty sad.

I forgot to mention why I thought this was brilliant. Many never bought the suite or additional synthesizers based on earlier Ableton pricing, especially as other DAWs provide such tools as part of their base offering (like Logic.) Having people to switch to the Suite model for future upgrades would have created a new set of upgrade customers upgrading the higher package year after year. So I thought this was brilliant.

Come two days later they hiked up the Live 9 suite upgrade with $100 and now it is not longer a no-brainer switch. Sigh.

my very two cents: http://julienbayle.net/blog/2012/10/27/ ... x-for-live

even, one cent.
just to contribute to the discussion.

julienb wrote:my very two cents: http://julienbayle.net/blog/2012/10/27/ ... x-for-live

even, one cent.
just to contribute to the discussion.

...

Brown Noise !!!

YA . I have no idea what they'll expect me to pay. I'm a suite 8 owner so.............guess we'll see. If they're gonna be fair I'd say Suite 8 owners shouldn't be paying more than $50.00, but I don't see that happening. It should actually be free. All the other soft-ware I use has FREE updates. I realize these dudes gotta get paid for all their hard work and all but us long timer's have been through a lot w/ you guys! I'm not mad and I'll almost definitely end up upgrading and getting PUSH but for right now I'm actually cool. I like my set up and am quite satisfied. Like I said before Traktor is gonna be a full fledged DAW pretty soon and it's even more "live" than " LIVE." But I <3 Ableton. If it wasn't for u guys I don't know what I'd do all day.

simpli.cissimus wrote:

humnumb wrote:You do have to give Ableton some credit for the amount of effort they put in to figuring out how to market these arguably underwhelming features as some groundbreaking revolutionary saviors of music making for fanboys to salivate over, complete with a keynote speech straight out of Steve Jobs' playbook, even if it did take them over 3 years. They could have left out the hipster blog site redesign and kept to its minimalistic aesthetics though.

That job was done with Push...

Not if you already own Maschine like I do:

- Push doesn't automap to third party plugins: "With VSTs, we currently can't access parameters in an automatic and consistent way, as we can with our own devices, so you would be left with a way to load a VST, but not control it automatically. viewtopic.php?p=1445043#p1445043

- it can't do step automation (step parameter lock): "We don't have per step automation of devices (also known as parameter lock)" viewtopic.php?p=1445659#p1445659

- no waveforms on the hardware LCD when sample editing and will still force you to look back and forth at the computer screen for a lot of things

- still requires you to use the mouse/trackpad for a lot of things like opening/closing plugin windows, even with cramming in lots of dedicated buttons

- the pads are too small for those who like to use more than one finger at a time on a pad

- has an unfortunate design flaw of the knobs being positioned above the LCD screen

- no Komplete preset integration on the hardware, obviously

- way overpriced in comparison to Maschine (Push is $948 with standard version of Live, $1198 with Live Suite)

simpli.cissimus wrote:

julienb wrote:my very two cents: http://julienbayle.net/blog/2012/10/27/ ... x-for-live

even, one cent.
just to contribute to the discussion.

...

Brown Noise !!!

humnumb wrote:

simpli.cissimus wrote:

humnumb wrote:You do have to give Ableton some credit for the amount of effort they put in to figuring out how to market these arguably underwhelming features as some groundbreaking revolutionary saviors of music making for fanboys to salivate over, complete with a keynote speech straight out of Steve Jobs' playbook, even if it did take them over 3 years. They could have left out the hipster blog site redesign and kept to its minimalistic aesthetics though.

That job was done with Push...

Not if you already own Maschine like I do:

- Push doesn't automap to third party plugins: "With VSTs, we currently can't access parameters in an automatic and consistent way, as we can with our own devices, so you would be left with a way to load a VST, but not control it automatically. viewtopic.php?p=1445043#p1445043

- it can't do step automation (step parameter lock): "We don't have per step automation of devices (also known as parameter lock)" viewtopic.php?p=1445659#p1445659

- no waveforms on the hardware LCD when sample editing and will still force you to look back and forth at the computer screen for a lot of things

- still requires you to use the mouse/trackpad for a lot of things like opening/closing plugin windows, even with cramming in lots of dedicated buttons

- the pads are too small for those who like to use more than one finger at a time on a pad

- has an unfortunate design flaw of the knobs being positioned above the LCD screen

- no Komplete preset integration on the hardware, obviously

- way overpriced in comparison to Maschine (Push is $948 with standard version of Live, $1198 with Live Suite)

Be interesting to see the list of what PUSH will do that Maschine doesn't...

And of course, you are free to dislike Live 9 (and not purchase)... Myself, I am pleased with what they are offering... and I think it is too soon to have much of an opinion about PUSH since such a device is so much about workflow that I would have to try it to see if I find it useful.

julienb wrote:

simpli.cissimus wrote:

julienb wrote:my very two cents: http://julienbayle.net/blog/2012/10/27/ ... x-for-live

even, one cent.
just to contribute to the discussion.

...

Brown Noise !!!