Hands up if you LOVE Live's manual

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:02 am

doc holiday wrote:if you want a hard to read manuel, go grab a 303 and try to program that thing via the manuel.. uggg..

No kidding a manual for music gear that actually uses music notation!

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:20 am

I spent two solid days over a weekend reading the manual before I even fired up Live, and the experience was invaluable. There's so much there; so incredibly comprehensive. My head was absolutely fucking spinning afterward, but if anything it got me excited as hell; as opposed to bored out of my mind; which is the result of reading most manuals.

The manual, in combo with this forum and YouTube vids, are all you really need to get going. Though I will say that if Live is your first DAW, as it was in my case, the ride for the first few miles might be a bit bumpy if all you're looking to is the manual.

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:28 am

gjm wrote: I learnt 2 CAD and 1 solid modeling systems from scratch, just the manual, no forums existed for the products at the time.

Heya gjm, what software are you referring to there? I use 3D Studio Max & VRay, plus AutoCAD.

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:09 am

Hmm.

I've been meaning to start a thread about my experiences as a first time DAW/Live user, but I'll share some thoughts here:

If you come to Live with absolutely no other complex software experience, I can see how it would be a fairly serious challenge. If all you've been used to is a little Word or Excel, then......yikes.

I got into creating digital music because I bought a MacBook and, well, it had a copy of GarageBand. I played with that for about 4 months, then thought "Cool. But, damn, there's got to be something that's more conducive to live playing." I've a feeling quite a few folks find their way to DAWs via the GarageBand route.

I have quite a bit of experience using timeline based software, so the arrangement view in Live was at least somewhat familiar. I have to say though, firing up Live for the first time - especially in Session view - takes your breath away if you've used nothing else more complicated than GarageBand. I remember thinking "Holy Fucking Shit. Deep Breath. Deeeeep Breath. You've read the manual buddy. Take it easy." I think I was as prepared as anyone can be, and I still almost crapped my pants.

Live is complex, but what I find unique is that you can pretty much get a basic tune going in a matter of minutes, perhaps hours if you're having a bad day. I find it completely scalable in that respect. Guys like Pitch Black push this thing to extremes, but you don't have to have his level of knowledge to get some cool shit going. That's very different with other software.

Case in Point: Adobe After Effects or Flash. Unlike Live, there's no fucking way your going to sit down and bang something cool out of Flash in a matter of hours - or even days. It's not for the faint of heart, and was by far the most challenging piece of software I've ever learned. A year and a half later, I can do some nice stuff but nowhere near the level of most serious Flash users. It requires absolute dedication. There's no dabbling or fuckin' about with it. After Effects is nearly the same; though a bit more forgiving. It's not something you're going to just sit down with and bang some cool shit out in a day or two after first starting it up. With Live, you can...

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:17 am

hehe - I think CAD's no problem.

it's word and excel that are the mystery..

(started with corel apps, can't get used to microsoft...)

gjm · Post by **gjm** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:36 am

landrvr1 wrote:
gjm wrote: I learnt 2 CAD and 1 solid modeling systems from scratch, just the manual, no forums existed for the products at the time.
Heya gjm, what software are you referring to there? I use 3D Studio Max & VRay, plus AutoCAD.

AutoSketch, AutoCAD V12, Ashlar-Vellum's Vellum, Graphite and Xenon. I also used MaxSurf Pro, a boat hull and appendage package. I dabbled with Microstation. I also briefly used TurboCad. I found Xenon awesome, and chose it over SolidWorks, bang for buck and usability.

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:15 am

I've learned a lot from it, especially in the morning...

aqua_tek · Post by **aqua_tek** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:41 am

what's a manual?

Pasha · Post by **Pasha** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:24 am

aqua_tek wrote:what's a manual?

A funny collection of useless papers....

leonardrock · Post by **leonardrock** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:41 am

Tarekith wrote:
Personally I think Ableton could do a better job explaining some of the warping concepts (like how to do it for newbies) and some of the instrument chapters are pretty short for the complexity of the instrument (Sampler).

+1 for some things needing better explanation.

Personally, a big one in my opinion would be file management. I've read the chapter 10 times and for some reason I still get nervous when moving stuff around. Especially when upgrading versions or after OS reinstall. Maybe it's just a case of the file system being so organized that it's too organized. House of cards, if you will.....

Not once have I ever lost anything in Pro Tools.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:33 pm

Definitely agree on the file management aspects. I'd say I'm a pretty proficient Live user, but even I get nervous with their file management system at times. Such a simple app has such a convoluted way of working with file structures....

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:26 pm

gjm wrote: ...can anyone relate?

no, because at no point did you RTFM?

and of course, for Live the "F" in RTFM stands for Fantastic, particularly in its right-there-in-the-app pdf form.

landrvr1 · Post by **landrvr1** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:39 pm

Utenzil is my God.

....

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:47 pm

landrvr1 wrote:Utenzil is my God.

....

and thus convenes the first meeting of the Internets Lost Souls User Group.

gjm · Post by **gjm** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:41 pm

mikemc wrote:
gjm wrote: ...can anyone relate?

no, because at no point did you RTFM?

and of course, for Live the "F" in RTFM stands for Fantastic, particularly in its right-there-in-the-app pdf form.

Oh mikey, mikey, mikey....

and you never read my post

Of course I have read the relavant parts of the manual. The problem is that I have a different expectation of what a manual should be. I expected it to do more than simply outline the workings of the software. I expected it to help me solve things that actually have nothing to do with the software. And here lies the problem...ME.

It seems that the grey matter between my ears needs more than just the software manual to get up and running. It's obvious that I am asking too much from the manual. Why should Ableton have to carry the burden of explaining the use of other companies driver issues, hardware and software use for example. The writer of the manual has assumed a certain level of general computor and software proficiency. It is not meant to be a 101 course in setting up and getting going in hobby home recording. It is clear from the response to this thread that the manual is a fine piece of work, in need of a couple of tweaks here and there but generally very good. So you see... it's ALL operator error (no pun intended)

Hands up if you LOVE Live's manual

Re: Hands up if you LOVE Live's manual

Re: Hands up if you LOVE Live's manual