My final words on DJs, composition and artistic merit

astar · Post by **astar** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:43 pm

Just because everyone can beatmatch now doesn't mean everyone can DJ. Beatmatching isn't THAT hard to learn anyways... the hard part is knowing when to drop what track and knowing which 2 tracks will mix well together and how the crowd will react to it... That skill is still needed in LIVE 5.

anyway, once again, great thread!

Ultimately, as we always conclude, all that matters in the end is that people are creating or playing music that touches people in some way or has some kind of positive impact on people's lives....

I respect everyone who's doing that whether they be a DJ or musician. I DON'T respect DJs who pretend that they are talented musicians tho... they are two different things and each have their own place as an artform.

cheers

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:44 pm

astar wrote:
The problem with sequenced music (it is doomed to be it's downfall until the end of time) is this "grid". Sure we have "groove quantize" (actually Live doesn't have it yet, grrr ) and other tricks but, for example, it is absolutely impossible to bring out the energy of an African drum circle in an electronically composed piece of music or by using a collection of recorded or sequenced drumloops. It's just not possible... there are live interdynamics, polyrhythms and human elements going on there that just can't be sequenced.

Exactly --- that's the point. And this is also why I have been and am still advocating an option that SWITCHES WARPING OFF on newly recorded files, and lets you loop those files unwarped. That way, an instrument recorded live and brought into the mix on the fly (much like a repeater does) will retain all these human elements and sound good (IF the player played the loop tight!)
R. R.

astar · Post by **astar** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:49 pm

FORMAT wrote: Exactly --- that's the point. And this is also why I have been and am still advocating an option that SWITCHES WARPING OFF on newly recorded files, and lets you loop those files unwarped. That way, an instrument recorded live and brought into the mix on the fly (much like a repeater does) will retain all these human elements and sound good (IF the player played the loop tight!)
R. R.

I just revived an old thread in the features request forum about this. I too really want this feature! It can't be that hard to implement and it gives the option of not always having to follow warp markers and quantization, etc. or the "grid" of the LIVE set.. makes for much more possibilities when it comes to live looping.. not everyone should be forced to follow the grid

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:09 pm

hambone1 wrote:I'm personally concentrating my efforts on image/marketing/internet, etc,
FWIW.

Thats exactly what you should do. The music is about 10th down the line in order of importance.

Lets face it, IT IS ABOUT MARKETING with everything.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:10 pm

1000 pounds...

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:27 pm

About beatmatching. I read some posts with people saying I learned it in two weeks. What exactly did you learn I wonder?

How about turning up at venue and from the moment your on you realise your playing the worst set of wobbly stantons.

What if your mixing style is such that you have to do very long mixes to nearly the length of the whole record.

Using the dodgy decks from hell I dont believe most people could constantly ride the fader with such crap decks if they have only been doing it for two weeks. Ive seen some long established Djs have problems with the decks from hell.

Certain styles of music are easy to mix. Its all there for you with nice little intros and outros dotted around for you to come in with your next record but there are styles that have little or no breaks and this is where the DJ has to craft a sound from two records playing almost constantly as if it were one. NO one is going to learn that in two weeks.

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:28 pm

hambone1 wrote:1000 pounds...

For you 700uk and a shot with the Bridesmaid.

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:32 pm

if u ever been to see Jeff Mills play,
the man mixes records like loops in Live... granted most of them are his, and most of his stuf fis minimal loops, but he is one DJ that really composes with records.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:34 pm

And lots of outstanding horse riders wouldn't drive newfangled motorcars, either...

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:42 pm

elemental wrote:if u ever been to see Jeff Mills play,
the man mixes records like loops in Live... granted most of them are his, and most of his stuf fis minimal loops, but he is one DJ that really composes with records.

Jeff is an in and out guy. Thats his style, same as the Spce Djs. But there are DJs that need to do very long mixes. Thats their style.

Whats your point

DJRetard · Post by **DJRetard** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:44 pm

Pu it another way. If your cutting from one record to the next with the crossfader you have to keep both in time for as long as you would be doing this.

Jeff Mills does that, so in a way its a long mix, your only hearing parts of it.

Yes, I have seen Jeff. Im playing his wedding soon.

Thats enough from me on the subject now.

gaspode · Post by **gaspode** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:09 pm

Perhaps Montreal just needs a hug...

braj · Post by **braj** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:45 pm

Part of the original rant in this thread was a complaint about new features in Live like MP3 support, so I just wanted to say that independent of DJing, this feature is useful for me as a guitarist so I can practice with or use any recordings I have laying around my HD. The auto beatmatching is good for me because I don't want to develop DJ skills to beatmatch stuff for my own compositional use. (If I like some drums from a recording for example I can import an MP3, auto beatmatch it, slice a loop from it, and then attempt to write midi drums using the loop as a reference in time with Battery)

Just another perspective on how the new features can be used by 'musicians', not just for DJs.

Hervé · Post by **Hervé** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:53 pm

FORMAT wrote:
Exactly --- that's the point. And this is also why I have been and am still advocating an option that SWITCHES WARPING OFF on newly recorded files, and lets you loop those files unwarped. That way, an instrument recorded live and brought into the mix on the fly (much like a repeater does) will retain all these human elements and sound good (IF the player played the loop tight!)
R. R.

I have a Lexicon JamMan linked to live for this purpose (300$ on Ebay)

Goran@Irrupt · Post by **Goran@Irrupt** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:10 pm

Burt wrote:OK - I've gotta chime in hear.

First a bit of immodesty - according to the Abe's I was probably the first 'pro' to use Live exclusively for DJ sets.

http://www.ableton.com/pages/user-area/ ... orgio.html

Kirk

WOW! the Kirk Degiorgio? the As One?
Ser, just wanna say that your Planetary Folklore record is one of the best records i've heard.

w!

p.s. sorry for the offtopic. great tread!