HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT - Still no automation midi clip record!

[decrepitude]

Live 8 is here and everyone is so excited and happy saying that Ableton has finally listened to it's customer base. Bullshit. There are a ton of posts on this so it's utter shite to say they've finally listened. Hell, Live's own midi clips support program change but their internal FX don't recognize them? That's insane!!

This was the one feature I was hoping for. It is essential to midi sequencing and I'm severely disappointed that Ableton continues to drop the ball on such an essential feature. Hardware midi sequencers have had this capability for decades! Proponents of Ableton Live go on and on about how modulating sound makes for a more interesting listening experience yet I can't even record my modulations into the session view. IN my view this continues to be a severe handicap and will certainly deter many from using Live for midi.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

[logic_user99]

You're not wrong; it isn't in there. But, if you had been keeping track of Robert as he made a merry stroll through our fair pastures, it was said that Live's base-code (or something) would need a complete re-write if Session View Automation were to be implemented.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong... please!

[six_o_clock_crow]

Live 8 is here and everyone is so excited and happy saying that Ableton has finally listened to it's customer base. Bullshit.

Mate,

Its fair enough to be annoyed that a feature you and others want hasn't been included in Live 8.

However...

Bearing in mind the amount features that HAVE been implemented in this update which have come from people posting on this forum...

And bearing in mind the amount of time Robert and Dom have spent posting on this forum in the past couple of days...

...to say that it's "bullshit" that Ableton listen is bang out of order, in my opinion.

[decrepitude]

But, if you had been keeping track of Robert as he made a merry stroll through our fair pastures...

Please don't ASSume I haven't. Sorry, I just don't buy the complete rewrite excuse. This is supported in hardware and many DAWs so if it is indeed true it was a HUGE oversight to begin with. I have immense respect for Henke but I do not take his word as gospel. If any of you are offended you're taking it way too personal. As a paying customer who doesn't whine about every single gripe I feel I am totally in my right to explain my disappointment that an essential component to midi pattern recording has continued to be left out. It's a big enough omission to make a serious dent in the potential expressiveness of this revolutionary software.

Six_o_clock_crow, you're proably right that "bullshit" was a bit harsh (you should hear me when I'm really trying) but don't act like I've insulted your personal friend. Certainly Robert and Dom have excellent work ethics, but this is about business - not personal favors. Empathy is one thing, but the bottom line is what tools will achieve the result you need and I feel this is a severe handicap and I'm certainly not alone.

I am in general a very happy user of Live but you can be damn sure I won't bite my lip out some notion of brand loyalty.

[andydes]

This is supported in hardware and many DAWs so if it is indeed true it was a HUGE oversight to begin with.:

Exactly what other DAWs can record automation in session view? As far as I know, other DAWs don't even have a session view. You think Robert was lying when he said there were technical reasons behind it? Maybe they just couldn't be arsed to put in a real simple and very popular feature request.

Afterall, Max aside, everything that's gone into this update was a popular request. Thinking about, even the Max thing is pretty much what everyone was hoping for.

[ethios4]

So why would Ableton NOT implement a feature so often requested and then make bogus excuses about it? To annoy their customer base? They don't think it's important? I don't buy that either. What Robert said about it makes the most sense to me....they could hack something together to make it sort of work, or we can wait for the re-write that will solve the issue completely. As he also said, if anyone can solve the design problems to make it work, they're all ears!

As for this feature being implemented in other DAWs and hardware, I don't know of Session view or clips existing anywhere else, so I don't see how that's possible.

I'm definitely disappointed this feature wasn't implemented in v8, but there's lots to be excited about also.

[ollyb303]

This is supported in ... many DAWs

Yeah, Logic's session view has this capabili... Oh, wait...

[McQ714]

It is essential to midi sequencing...

1) not essential
2) session view was not really created for midi sequencing

...so they messed up in the beginning with one little feature that you can obviously work around by using arrangement view, right? Quit your bitching you whiny little girl. If you don't like what Ableton has to offer, then don't use it. Go use PT, Cubase, Sonar, Logic, FL, Reaper... oh wait... those programs don't have anything close to session view and the creative workflow that Ableton does! How about this... if you don't like it, stop making music, because it's obviously too difficult to get done what YOU need to get done.

[Kodama]

All we really need is for native devices to act like 3rd party devices do.

I.E., when you midi learn their controls, you can record their modulation to session clips.

The difference is automation vs modulation.

The envelopes in the session clips are modulation.

There is no reason that this can not be enabled for native devices!

Between now and the release, I would urge people to ask the Abes to include record modulation to session for native devices!

(P.S. - There is a small chance that this already is there and we won't see it until the beta...)

[ethios4]

Between now and the release, I would urge people to ask the Abes to include record modulation to session for native devices!

+1

[six_o_clock_crow]

Six_o_clock_crow, you're proably right that "bullshit" was a bit harsh (you should hear me when I'm really trying) but don't act like I've insulted your personal friend. Certainly Robert and Dom have excellent work ethics, but this is about business - not personal favors. Empathy is one thing, but the bottom line is what tools will achieve the result you need and I feel this is a severe handicap and I'm certainly not alone.

I am in general a very happy user of Live but you can be damn sure I won't bite my lip out some notion of brand loyalty.

This isn't about friendship or brand loyalty, I just respect the fact that - unlike many software forums - the likes of Robert and Dom actually interact with us.

[decrepitude]

Quit your bitching you whiny little <expletive deleted>.

You've obviously mistaken me for someone who cares what you think.

I stand by my opinion.

[dom]

This isn't about friendship or brand loyalty, I just respect the fact that - unlike many software forums - the likes of Robert and Dom actually interact with us.

... and if they tell you that they also miss automation recording in session clips A LOT and it is still not there - there has to be a reason - and this reason is not enjoying messing around with you by holding features back.

We love Live just as you do, maybe even a little more!
And besides trying to do a professional job it may be even a good thing, that a lot of abletons are still so emotional about our favourite piece of software on earth that it sometimes hurts.

decrepitude: please go through your last posting and try to state what you want to express without offensive terms.

Thanks in advance,
Dom

[Kodama]

Dom,

I understand the issue with recording automation, but why not open native devices to recording modulation to clip envelopes, just as 3rd party ones can?

At least offer an option to turn it on in the prefs.

This weird limitation actually makes native devices less desirable to me, I.E. - I would rather use Zebra CM than Analog because I can record modulation to clip envelopes with Zebra CM.
Yes, I know that midi loop back work-arounds exist, but they are very messy and buggy.

[decrepitude]

Dom,

With the utmost respect I recommend you follow your own advice and re-read my post yourself. Can you honestly say you are offended? Certainly this isn't the first time customers have been passionate about their opinions or disappointments. Obviously I posted an emotional response, but your "disciples" have escalated the negative vibe with name calling and such.

I even indicated that I was generally happy (and surprise - I intend to upgrade,) but as is the usual attitude here, that fact was ignored and only the negative aspects of my post were focused on.

I'm very disappointed and as a paying customer I am very surprised that this has become more about semantics rather than the issue at hand.

Dom, I really see no need to explain again. I was very clear about what is missing - the ability to record knob movements (as well as notes) into session view clips is still not a capability in Live and I'm a very upset customer. That''s it.

Someone suggested I should take Live or leave it. The same goes for my opinion. But NEVER will I be told that I can't have one, not to mention the "delivery". The attituide in my statements was aggressive - but not as bad as you make it out to be.

Is Ableton not interested in passionate opinions? Sure they are.

Aggressive declarations like mine only present an opportunity for Ableton to improve. We've wasted valuable time even debating it.