match tempo to sample bpm

[dave_house]

OK, this has got to be a simple one, but I can't suss it!

Here's a scenario I've come up against several times: I have a clip that I want to base a tune around. Lets say it's a train rumbling past. I want the natural rhythm of the 'clackety clack' sound to be the basis for the tunes tempo.

How do I get it into a live set, work out it's 'natural' bpm, set the master tempo then loop it without the warp stuff taking over and mucking up the timing / pitch, etc?

I've tried importing the clip unwarped, listenening to it then tapping the master tempo based on that. Once I warp and loop the clip, though, it all goes out of time, even if I've carefully set my clip loop points.

My workarounds include using Arrangement view to repeatedly paste the same clip (clumsy and means I can't jam in Session view), and turning the clip into a Sampler instrument and manually triggering the sample in time and creating a looped clip that way. Which seems a long way around for something so damn simple!

Cheers, Dave.

[salatspinatra]

Well, more people will come to your aid here, but I'll give you first impressions (I'm not in arrangement view much either.)
One way, wait for abe 8 and grooves. other way see below:
First off, appreciate that a on old steam train has a syncopated rhythm, so your transients are not your down-beats necessarily. If you're talking about some groves on a track that the wheels go over, yeah, pin them down with warp markers.
Now look at the clip tempo. What did ableton come up with? Even if it's off the mark (if it's REALLY off the mark, start your session in a more ball park BPM and reanalyze the warping. If it's a divisible error, use the divisible buttons under the estimated clip tempo) Realize that this analysis is based on one warp marker to the next, but it really doesn't matter for this next step:
Put that value into your global tempo. When a clip and the global tempo are the same, the warp engine is effectively OFF. Even if the BPM estimate that it gave you is questionable. I don't mean that you'll have the most "neutral" influence from the warp engine, I literally mean there's no warp for that clip even when the warp button is active for that clip.
The other thing I recall about arrangement is that you don't need to copy the clip over and over again. If your loop points are rhythmic and too your liking, just put the clip in once into arrangement, and drag it out. It will loop for the duration of the timeline that you stretched it to.
In arrangement view your clips have an additional property. Assign the train clip as your master tempo track. There's a button in clip view that toggles master/slave (wish we could get over that colonial analogy finally), I think. Any nuances if you do move the warpers around or change the tempo) will be reflected in the overall tempo. Even if you go to session view, your arrangement loop will only be over-ridden if you do something in session on that same track. So keep it out of your way, and work on other tracks with session with the back to arrangement button highlighted.
Give it a whirl

[Geezus]

OK, this has got to be a simple one, but I can't suss it!

Here's a scenario I've come up against several times: I have a clip that I want to base a tune around. Lets say it's a train rumbling past. I want the natural rhythm of the 'clackety clack' sound to be the basis for the tunes tempo.

How do I get it into a live set, work out it's 'natural' bpm, set the master tempo then loop it without the warp stuff taking over and mucking up the timing / pitch, etc?

I've tried importing the clip unwarped, listenening to it then tapping the master tempo based on that. Once I warp and loop the clip, though, it all goes out of time, even if I've carefully set my clip loop points.

My workarounds include using Arrangement view to repeatedly paste the same clip (clumsy and means I can't jam in Session view), and turning the clip into a Sampler instrument and manually triggering the sample in time and creating a looped clip that way. Which seems a long way around for something so damn simple!

Cheers, Dave.

From the manual (novel idea huh?):

9.2.1 Tempo Master/Slave
All warped clips in the Arrangement View have one further option: They can be dened as
tempo masters by toggling their Master/Slave switches. Any number of clips can be set as
tempo masters, but only one clip at a time can actually be the tempo master. This distinction
is always granted to the bottom-most, currently playing clip in the Arrangement View.
The clip that is the current tempo master will play as if warping was off, but with one
important difference the rest of the Live Set will be warped so that it plays in sync with the
current tempo master.
This is achieved by adding tempo automation to the Master track for the duration of the
tempo master clip. You will notice that the Tempo eld in Live’s Control Bar becomes
disabled in this state; this is because all tempo control is handed over to the tempo master
clip.
When toggling a clip’s Master/Slave switch, or when deleting a clip that was set as tempo
master, the Master track tempo automation is removed again, restoring the proper tempo
to the region. If you wish instead to keep the generated tempo automation to continue
working with it, then (PC) / Ctrl (Mac) on the Control Bar’s Tempo eld, and choose
the Unslave Tempo Automation command. All clips will then be set to Slave, but the tempo
automation will remain in place.
Note that when Live’s EXT switch is enabled, the Master/Slave switch has no effect and
appears disabled.

[Tone Deft]

interesting manual quote, but a bit overkill for what he wants, I think.

just look at clip view, find the 'original bpm' for the sample and set the global bpm to that bpm.

[Geezus]

interesting manual quote, but a bit overkill for what he wants, I think.

just look at clip view, find the 'original bpm' for the sample and set the global bpm to that bpm.

LOL that was actually the trick i was looking for when I checked the manual and after I read it I thought to myself "wtf I could have swore there was a simple fucking button to do this"

[ChowMein]

I dont know if anyone has worked this out. And I know this is an OLLLLD thread, but I jsut had the same issue.

I had recorded a nice guitar riif. The problem is that when you record the sample, Ableton has a defined bpm. However, once you get in the groove you may be running at a different bpm in the real world.

So what I did was:
- Record the sample. Dont worry about bpms in ableton.
- Bring the sample into the clip view
- Turn off warp
- Set the ableton master bpm to the bpm you work out the same is (I had recorded in 120 bpm, but my sample was 112bpm. I worked this out by turning off warp and nudging the bpm in ableton with metronome running until it fit)
- Then record the audio of your unwarped sample into a NEW CHANNEL. This channel will be recording at the bpms you just entered into ableton master bpm area
- Delete the original sample (which is still in a native 120bpm of the very original recording)
- Now you have a clip at the correct bpm and ableton harmonised to it

[Nokatus]

- Then record the audio of your unwarped sample into a NEW CHANNEL. This channel will be recording at the bpms you just entered into ableton master bpm area
- Delete the original sample (which is still in a native 120bpm of the very original recording)
- Now you have a clip at the correct bpm and ableton harmonised to it

Rerecording in this manner is unnecessary.

[ChowMein]

- Then record the audio of your unwarped sample into a NEW CHANNEL. This channel will be recording at the bpms you just entered into ableton master bpm area
- Delete the original sample (which is still in a native 120bpm of the very original recording)
- Now you have a clip at the correct bpm and ableton harmonised to it

Rerecording in this manner is unnecessary.

Can you elaborate please?? I really couldn't find a way to get Ableton to let me base a songs tempo around a sample I recorded without doing this. Thanks

[Nokatus]

Can you elaborate please?? I really couldn't find a way to get Ableton to let me base a songs tempo around a sample I recorded without doing this. Thanks

After you have adjusted your project tempo to the unwarped original clip so that it lines up, what is the problem, specifically? You then have your project and the original recording running at the same tempo already, and you can then proceed with the rest of the track? Can you walk through the part where you have adjusted the tempo to match, and you then rerecord the clip; what is the exact thing you feel like you need to remedy by rerecording?

[ChowMein]

Can you elaborate please?? I really couldn't find a way to get Ableton to let me base a songs tempo around a sample I recorded without doing this. Thanks

After you have adjusted your project tempo to the unwarped original clip so that it lines up, what is the problem, specifically? You then have your project and the original recording running at the same tempo already, and you can then proceed with the rest of the track? Can you walk through the part where you have adjusted the tempo to match, and you then rerecord the clip; what is the exact thing you feel like you need to remedy by rerecording?

Thanks nokatus.

I want my sample to loop. So I have to have warp eventually selected on the sample. However when I do this, because the original sample was recorded with Ableton at 120bpm, by setting the new projects master BPM to 112 it warps the recording to slower than actual 112bpm.

I either need a way of changing the BPM assigned to the sample without changing the absolute time it takes to play the clip, or a way to adjust the master BPM without then slowing down my original recording.

Otherwise, the only way I have found so far is to set master BPM to actual desired value, then resample my recording with this setup.

I feel like I am missing something as im sure it's a common problem!!

Thanks for any thoughts you have

[Nokatus]

When you adjust the project tempo, be sure you have warping disabled on the actual clip, and its timing will not be altered. After you have found the correct tempo and your project is in sync, just enable warping on the clip again. If it shows some other tempo as the "Seg. BPM" than the one you have comfortably arrived at, you can just reset/set the tempo of the clip to reflect that of your project then.

[Nokatus]

You can also work backwards, having warp enabled and placing warp markers onto the clip as the first step of this tempo finding. Warp it so that it fits what ever tempo your project is currently at. Then you can check out the original tempo, more or less (depending on the preciseness of the placed markers) from the "Seg. BPM" field. You can then adjust your project tempo to suit that original tempo of your recording.

[ChowMein]

Yes if I don't have warp disabled then it works fine up to a point. But if I want to then warp mark the sample later, move things around a bit etc it slows down the sample to less than 112bpm (as it was recorded live as 112bpm but Ableton has assigned the sample 120bpm because thats what was in the master bpm when it was recorded).

It is kind of hard to explain. If I have a solid clip at a set bpm I think it is a little less hassle to re-record the sample with Abletons master BPM set to the correct value than place all the warp markers in place and shift them around very precisely.

Thanks for your thoughts/help.

[Nokatus]

It is kind of hard to explain. If I have a solid clip at a set bpm I think it is a little less hassle to re-record the sample with Abletons master BPM set to the correct value than place all the warp markers in place and shift them around very precisel.

I do get what you are saying, it's just that there's something weird going on as it really should simply work. I literally just tried it to be sure.

I recorded a slow melody while my project was running at 132 BPM. After recording, the clip parameters show:



Then, I disable warping:



Finding the tempo for the whole project based on that clip; with the metronome on and adjusting the project tempo while listening. Happened to land on 100 BPM, heh:



Then I enable warping on the clip again. Live asks this:



Answer yes, as the whole point is to keep the timing as it is, and be able to adjust it further with warping enabled.

As a result:



The clip is still sounding as it was when I recorded it, and warp is enabled again, clip tempo matching that of the project.

Also note that you can of course in turn adjust the Seg. BPM of the clip manually if there's a discrepancy in that sense. You don't need to rerecord in order to get a fresh "original" tempo assigned for the clip.

[ChowMein]

Ahhhh I think I know whats different here...and sorry for not realising this is important until now. I recorded the sample in a different live set. And am importing it into a new one!

I think that's what's making the difference. As the sample file must get assigned the donor sets Bpm in its info file...