even drum volumes of very different sets

zeitaliesin · Post by **zeitaliesin** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:14 pm

Well firstly I must say that I have a HUGE problem with the volume of the drums when I play out. I dont know how to get them even!!!! Because of the differences in the effects and types of drums I dont know if this is even possible? But it is really a bad idea to leave it up to the soundmen that are provided. HELP!!

myxomat0515 · Post by **myxomat0515** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:03 am

It doesn't hurt to address this kind of issue BEFORE YOU PLAY OUT. Yes, it is a really bad idea to leave it up to the sound crew. What instrument are you using to produce these drum tracks? Impulse/Drum Racks? If so I find it hard to believe that you didn't think to listen to and adjust your drum sounds before a gig. If you are using another drum program, let us know...that would help.

Da hand · Post by **Da hand** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:32 am

Also, why is it only the drums that have a problem? I would think the levels of the entire songs would be different then as well, no? How are you managing the song levels differently to the drum levels?

zeitaliesin · Post by **zeitaliesin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:40 pm

we are only using it for drums when we play out. the rest of the songs are played with real instruments. The confusion with the drums is that they are all very different, and have many different effects being used. I can only think that perhaps a limiter may help but dont want it to distort anything. As for the last notice, saying I should be able to control the volume, I suppose I must say that the quality of the drums just react differently. Oh and yes they are all drum sets from ableton.

zeitaliesin · Post by **zeitaliesin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:45 pm

P.S. This is BEFORE we play out. HAHA what would be the point after???

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:47 pm

user error.

PRACTICE!

you can drive the track meters into the red, just not the Master. put a limiter on that if you can't control yourself.

or put a midi volume effect on the drums so they're driven more consistently, IOW use it to drive them more consistently hard, so they can't go quieter.

it sucks when drums have dynamics, doesn't it?

which kits btw? we all have them.

zeitaliesin · Post by **zeitaliesin** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:00 pm

it not really the kits i am finding it is the beat repeat such things as that that really just all of a sudden peak, yet sound weak when they arent. so I am in a position of just taking some of these out and just using a consistent set. I really dont know exactly what sets they are for I am not near the unit. the beats are all mine and that is what is important. the damn thing is that my keyboardist should be able to handle this crap. of course they leave everything up to the singer haha, well i did make the beats so what can i say to them?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:03 pm

beat repeat can be a beast to tame, I can see that.

3 day weekend, plenty of time to check out limiters and whatnots. there are also pre-made mastering instrument racks that come with Live and lots of racks users made in the tips n trcks 'post your racks' sticky.

Da hand · Post by **Da hand** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:27 pm

Thanks for the response, I think I understand better now.

If you are making your own beats and would like them all to have a consistent sound when mixing from one to the other, then this needs to be addressed at the construction stage of your beats.

The best way is to make one "reference" mix of a beat where the basic drum elements are at the levels and tones that you like. This will become the reference beat to all the other beats.

Then take all your other beats and mix their elements with the "reference" mix in mind. You don't have to make them all sound the same, but it will give you a reference to work with.

For example, you set three beats to have their kick drums and snares at similar levels, but then on the fourth beat you want a huge fat kick drum. Because you have a reference points to work with now for your kick drums and snares, if you make this fourth kick drum huge and leave the snare at the same level as the three previous beats' snares, then when you mix the 4 beats together, kick drum 4 will sound bigger in comparison to the three previous kicks while the snare levels stay similar.

When you have a reference point for your elements, they all fall into place quite easily.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:38 pm

re: beatRepeat:

I have it set to "ins" (obviously, mix is LAME!

) and then about -4db - otherwise it'll totally take over.

solacerodgers · Post by **solacerodgers** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:48 pm

The beat repeat has a additional gain stage in it so those drums that do "hit" it may be just getting hit with another gain stage on the way to the summing bus. Also sound levels vary depending on room , air temp , where you sit ect so I would suggest you use something like the roger nicholas IXL free which measures RMS and not just dbfs to get a better "average".

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:57 pm

solacerodgers wrote:The beat repeat has a additional gain stage in it so those drums that do "hit" it may be just getting hit with another gain stage on the way to the summing bus.

no, that's not really the problem I think; the problem is that 1 snare isn't nearly as loud as 16 in rapid succesion

Hence lowering the output for a smoother approach. YMMV, of course.

solacerodgers · Post by **solacerodgers** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:09 am

Which is why there is the decay option by the volume.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:12 am

no, the decay knob does something entirely different; when I do repeat "drills" I want each repeat to be the same volume, just lower

solacerodgers · Post by **solacerodgers** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:21 am

your right the decay knob provides gradually fading reps of the signal source so each sound going through the beat repeaters signal would continue to decay. I have only used the plug in on chopped samples like horns and such where it works to my benifit.

even drum volumes of very different sets

even drum volumes of very different sets

drum volumes

P.S. LOL

vooolUME!