Live Compressors and other addons

[huml]

Hi everyone,

I just recently started using Live so I am very new to all of this. In fact, this is the first time I have ever played with audio software of any kind. Hopefully, someone can help me.

I am playing with just me and an acoustic guitar. 1 microphone. I am looking for the best basic combination of compressors or other addins. I know it's probably hard to keep something like this simple and I apoligize for being so vague, but I'm not looking to do anything else other than making what I do sound respectable. I would like to have a studio sound, or as close to it as I can, with the equipment that I am working with. Right now, it's very dry and basic. If you need any additional information, I would be glad to give it to you. I appreciate any help anyone can offer. Thanks.

Jason

[the_woof]

I don't know that much about acoustic guitars, but once you've tried several mic placements and found one you like, try adding reverb to what you've recorded. If you read the Live manual, it'll describe what each section does. With the right settings you'll sound much more professional just with reverb, then you can add compression and other things lightly. But reverb first, I would think.

[forge]

Hi Jason

you might find some of the videos at Groovebox music helpful: http://www.grooveboxmusic.com/str/recor ... -training/

I did the series on effects plug-ins, there used to be a series on mic placement but I can't seem to see it on there, but there is loads of stuff for all DAWs and you can get access to the whole lot for a month for $30

but as a general rule, I find the mic makes the biggest difference - make sure you use a condenser for acoustic gtr + vox - makes all the difference

record them separately, and if the sound going in is good you really shouldn't need much in the way of plug-ins

vox might need some compression, maybe guitar to catch peaks, maybe some kind of subtle room reverb, but overall you just want to bring out the natural sound of the instrument

[leedsquietman]

What mic are you using. How are you setting up recording the acoustic guitar. Getting a good acoustic sound is one of the most difficult engineering skills, probably second only to getting a good acoustic drums sound.

Compression is something to be used very lightly with acoustic guitars, unless they are part of a big heavy mix with lots of other instruments in the arrangement. An acoustic guitar singer songwriter combo, if using good micing techniques and you're playing is good and fairly consistent, should need very little if any compression. Compression is typically used to make things smaller, sit better and level out volumes, but can add harshness and kill dynamics if not used correctly. You can also consider just riding the volume control or using volume automation. If you are just vocals and acoustic guitar, you want to try and make the guitar sound BIGGER not smaller, to fill in frequency holes missing from not having bass and other instruments.

Using other tools, such as reverb and/or delays will add depth to a mix but again, you need to know how to use these tools to best optimize your mix.

EQing can be a useful tool too.

Practice makes better as they say. I would get some good books and read up on engineering/micing up vocals and acoustic guitars and mic placements, type of mics to use etc.

And KEY is - how does the room sound? If you are recording in a space that sounds bad, has lots of background noise, problematic reflections and such, you need to think about some rudimentary acoustic treatment, such as singing with your back to a duvet and/or buying something like an SE Reflexion Filter, or find a better room/space.

[huml]

Sorry for the delayed response. The site was down, then I went out of town for a bit.

I use an AKG Perception 220 condenser mic. I'm allowing the mic to pic up everything. I can plug in, but so far I have chosen not to.

Here is the first recording I did and I definitely feel that there is not enough guitar. This sounds a lot better than what I was previously recording, but I still obviously know it can sound better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr1pSNZKTZY

I did not include reverb, even though I wanted to, because I really wasn't sure HOW to use it for my situation.

Any suggestions?

[huml]

Bumpage/

[leedsquietman]

Thanks for the clip. ALthough Youtube video doesn't really do justice to audio but what you had there didn't sound too bad. A bit John Mayer-ish if that's your thing.

First of all - You either need to use 2 mics, one to capture guitar and one for vocals to achieve good mix seperation. Vocals and guitar can overlap and you can't really bring up one with affecting the other if you are just 'live' recording off one mic.

Second - if you only have one mic, then record a GUIDE track of vocals plus guitar but then record 2 seperate tracks (while playing/monitoring the guide track), 1 vocal only, 1 guitar only and make your final mix from using those 2 tracks, not the guide. This is a faster way of doing things anyway and if you make a mistake on the guide, you don't need to worry (unless it's lots of mistakes, or a timing error that throws everything off sync). Afterwards you can adjust levels, EQ, compression and FX seperately for much greater control. Then you can also dub on additional vocals for harmonies, backing or whatever on a seperate track too.

I can't tell you HOW to mix, but personally, I would add a SUBTLE touch of reverb for some extra ambience probably a small-medium plate and/or a medium room, with a tad more on the vocal than the guitar. Also, remember to do things like cut the lows and highs from the reverb so you don't muddy the mix, or add unpleasant artifacts, so look to shelve/hi pass anywhere from 300-500Hz according to taste and the song and lo pass/shelve 6-8 Khz.

[Dstro]

Try the AKAI quad compressor...But i find when processing a guitar or vocals a good maximizer will brighten it up. I use a BBE d82 Sonic maximizer.

[n0nce]

If it is just you, an acoustic guitar, and a microphone, you DEFINITELY need one of these.

http://vintageking.com/Shadow-Hills-Mas ... Compressor

Nothing else is going to make you happy. Seriously. You might as well just quit if you aren't using one of these in your signal chain.

[huml]

Ya I know youtube is a bad example because of how bad it gets F'd up transferring the files.

I will try all of these ideas, except for the last one lol. $7,000.00 is a bit steep for what I'm looking to do. I'm not looking to make a living out of this, just looking to have some fun and get as much quality sound out of it for an affordable price. Thanks again fellas!

[3dot...]

If it is just you, an acoustic guitar, and a microphone, you DEFINITELY need one of these.

http://vintageking.com/Shadow-Hills-Mas ... Compressor

Nothing else is going to make you happy. Seriously. You might as well just quit if you aren't using one of these in your signal chain.

[3dot...]

a good preamp and a decent mic 'll do the job.
I'd recommend a brand but there are many good ones.with a decent price... (like Shure and Rode...)
no need to get carried away...yet..

[innerstatejt]

For great compression, reverb and recording tips, may I suggest my most valued book for production.
www.mixingwithyourmind.com

I'm not affiliated with this book at all, but it is definitely worth a read if you are wanting good mic tips, recording techniques and professional effect techniques.

a couple tips...
1.
when choosing a mic, measure the "hardness" of the instrument being recorded from 1-10. What I mean by hardness is, does it hit you like a rock, or like a piece of cotton? This has nothing to do with volume, it has to do with tone.
Now do the same when testing out microphones. typically if you have a "hard" sounding guitar, you'll want to record on a softer sounding microphone and vice versa. So a mic with an 8 hardness would be best for and instrument with a 2 hardness..get it?
(forget this step if you only have one option, but something to keep in mind)
2.
When choosing mic location for recording, you almost always want to set the mic where you get the best bass response. The rest will fall into place. You can always back the bass off later, but it's good to have it there in the recording.

compression...

to hear what your compresssor is doing to your sound, start with a deep threshold (-50db or lower)
and set a high ratio, a fast attack and a slow release. Mess with the attack first so you can hear what is being compressed. fast attack (less milliseconds) will give you a thinner sharper sound and as you slow it down you may notice a thicker sound. next adjust the release.. this will set how quickly the compressed sound bounces back. This works well if you adjust it rhythmatically.
next lower the ratio so you can still hear the effect but it's at a more natural setting. finally bring your threshold up to where the effect it less noticable but still there..


reverb

i think its best to create a send/return track with a couple of reverbs. this way anything you want to "gel" together you can put a bit of the same reverb on it (drums work well for this). make sure to set the reverb to 100% wet, on send/return tracks. Certain instrument should sound like they have reverb on them, but should be noticable if you turn the effect off. Long reverbs (long decay settings) can work well to create atmosphere in tracks with minimal instruments. Don't overdo it though or you may end up with a bunch of mud. using a short predelay can help a vocal or instrument sound cleaner since the reverb waits a little bit after a clean part comes in before effecting it. I usually put a low cut on my reverb at about 150hz and do a dip between 300-600hz(just add an eq to the send/return track). if you know about "ducking" or sidechaining, you can sidechain the reverb to the voice so the reverb always leaves space for a clean vocal but the song gets filled in with reverb where ever it's needed.

as a general rule, less reverb makes things seem closer and more reverb makes things seem further away.

hope this helps,

Jason

[fragchamp]

I caught Tommy Emmanuel on the Guitar Show once. He blends 3 mics and 2 pickups through compressors, so you can go overboard with this stuff. You can get a clean sound with one mic aimed between the neck joint and soundhole.

[leedsquietman]

As 3dot says, a reasonable mic and preamp are all you really need, you can get the other FX within Live or freeware and still make it sound good if the recording was good in the first place. Some good points above, the reverb 'ducking'/sidechaining thing is something I've done a lot over the years and so long as it is subtle, it can work really well.

And he's also right that you don't need to spend a fortune to get a reasonably good sound - Rode's cheapest mic, the M3, is actually awesome at recording acoustic guitar in particular, although it is cardiode pattern only. The NT1a for a bit more is also awesome and gives you a little more flexibility. And other manufacturers have similarly good product for not too much.

Compression on acoustic guitar is usually a more subtle affair than when using electric guitar. If the player is experienced and plays at a fairly constant level to begin with, you don't need much. It can add character and warmth to the sound if done right, or kill the tone and make it very scratchy sounding if you get it wrong. Try very light settings, slowing increasing the threshold and/or ratio to get the best result. EQ can also make a big impact, and for better or for worse.