Program Change Messages...Still in the Dark!

Hardtoes · Post by **Hardtoes** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:40 pm

Yo,

Thanks to EnjoyRC for pointing me in the right direction, but alas I still cannot figure out how to do program change messages...it doesn't seem to be in the controllers available in the clip envelope mode...I have tried searching the forum but have only come up with hundreds of unrelated posts (does the search feature really work or am I just dumb???) The manual is also less than helpful....Please, someone reveal how this is done....

Thanks
Orion

billybob · Post by **billybob** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:55 pm

I have the same problem, only i want to get rid of PC messages. When i download a midi file from the net a lot of times they contain PC messages
and that makes my gigastudio machine do all kinds of crazy stuff.

I have to take the files into Cubase SX remove the PC messages and resave all of the midi files to be able to use them.

I don't get how to filter this kind of data in L4...maybe it just won't do it.

BB

Taskmaster Tommy Tanner · Post by **Taskmaster Tommy Tanner** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:07 pm

yes i am having this problem. keep thinking that there is something blatantly obvious that im missing?????

whats the point of having midi if you have to mixdown the loop in order to carry out changes between presets smoothly during a song?

EnjoyRC · Post by **EnjoyRC** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:49 pm

There is a graphic on the second page of listings in this thread that perfect shows how to set program changes.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

I hope it helps. You can set the BANK / SUBBANK / Program Change. The program change will be sent at the beginning of playing the clip. Very nice feature. No, you can't program changes mid clip. Yet, if you feel that you need to send a new program change, start a new clip. It works great in the arrangement view.

Hardtoes · Post by **Hardtoes** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:28 pm

AAARGH,

Thanks for the replies, but I still just don't get it...are you saying that you need to route the messgae from a hardware midi controller, through live to the external synth????.....if you can do it in the clip properties I sure as hell can't find it......I could do this on my old roland mc-300 so how hard could it be????

Orion

Hardtoes · Post by **Hardtoes** » Sat Jul 31, 2004 10:54 pm

Yo,

I have finally seen the light...I guess I was just effected by the same type of blindness that occurs when looking in the fridge for the milk....sorry for venting my frustration on the forum (It really is quite simple to do program changes...).

Resting Easy,

Orion

rlwilliams · Post by **rlwilliams** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 2:05 am

Hardtoes,

Will you help me see the light? I think I see in the clip view under notes the BANK/SUBBANK/Program Change, but nothing changes for me.

What does all of this mean? "You can set the BANK / SUBBANK / Program Change. The program change will be sent at the beginning of playing the clip. Very nice feature. No, you can't program changes mid clip. Yet, if you feel that you need to send a new program change, start a new clip. It works great in the arrangement view."

I'll try it some more, but I'm getting frustrated. I want to be able to use an external synthesizer. I can hear it play, but can't change the program to the one I want to record with.

Do you have to record something before you can change sounds? I don't want to use just any sound, it may not be the right one for the song I'm working on.

I'm confused. Can somone help walk me through this?

Thanks,

Ronnie

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 3:04 am

1. Use Live 4
2. Plug in your midi keyboard into the midi in of your computer, and the midi out from the computer back into the midi in of the keyboard.
3. Make sure it is working... look on the top right hand side of live for little note messages when you touch the keys.
4. record a midi clip... with notes or without, whatever.
5. go to the "Notes" bit in the clip envelope window.... 2nd form the left on the left hand side. Under "BPM" there are three boxes, labeled "Bank", "Sub-Bank" and "Program".
6. Change these to the program/bank number that corresponds with the program/bank you want your keyboard to play.
7.Launch the clip, and watch the program change on your synth.

optional....

8. read the manual.

... maybe not optional. do it, it will help you understand more about it.

-am

rlwilliams · Post by **rlwilliams** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:16 am

am,

Thanks for your reply.

I've got the keyboard hooked up etc. I just want to know how do you choose/change a sound to play from the external keyboard before recording any midi data.

After creating a midi channel/track and getting the keyboard ready to record, I don't understand how you can change the synth patch before recording, or to be able to record the sound I want the keyboard to play.

I hope this is making sense.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:12 am

rlwilliams wrote:am,

Thanks for your reply.

I've got the keyboard hooked up etc. I just want to know how do you choose/change a sound to play from the external keyboard before recording any midi data.

After creating a midi channel/track and getting the keyboard ready to record, I don't understand how you can change the synth patch before recording, or to be able to record the sound I want the keyboard to play.

I hope this is making sense.

ok.... you can change the synth patch manually by turning dials and pressing buttons on your keyboard!

MIDI works by sending note messages.... not "sounds", so you can change patches after you have recorded your midi clip... do you know this already?

Recording audio into your computer is another thing altogether...

it is hard to gauge where people are at with these things sometimes.

If you need any more help, you've got to be really specific about what your problem is.... ie: what OS/keyboard/midi interface you are using, give concrete examples of where things are going wrong for you, otherwise nobody here can really help you.

regards,
-am

rlwilliams · Post by **rlwilliams** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 12:33 pm

"ok.... you can change the synth patch manually by turning dials and pressing buttons on your keyboard!"

This is what I want to know. I use Metro for the Mac, and in it you can select the presets/sounds from the DAW. Thanks for your time. I'll look into changing the presets from the keyboard.

rlwilliams · Post by **rlwilliams** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:17 pm

"ok.... you can change the synth patch manually by turning dials and pressing buttons on your keyboard!"

This is what I want to know. I use Metro for the Mac, and in it you can select the presets/sounds from the DAW. Thanks for your time. I'll look into changing the presets from the keyboard.

rlwilliams · Post by **rlwilliams** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:17 pm

"ok.... you can change the synth patch manually by turning dials and pressing buttons on your keyboard!"

This is what I want to know. I use Metro for the Mac, and in it you can select the presets/sounds from the DAW. Thanks for your time. I'll look into changing the presets from the keyboard.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:26 pm

maybe you should look inside your keyboard's edit menu: is it set up to receive progam changes? sometimes it's not default, so you'd better chack it out.

BillMo · Post by **BillMo** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:11 pm

rlwilliams wrote:am,

Thanks for your reply.

I've got the keyboard hooked up etc. I just want to know how do you choose/change a sound to play from the external keyboard before recording any midi data.

After creating a midi channel/track and getting the keyboard ready to record, I don't understand how you can change the synth patch before recording, or to be able to record the sound I want the keyboard to play.

I hope this is making sense.

I struggled with this too. The answer is you'll make two clips. Here are the steps from a high level:
1) Create a new MIDI clip (double-click in an empty slot). Let's call it "setup." In the clip editor Notes Box, put in the bank and/or program changes you want. Make sure the clip does not loop.
2) Launch the setup clip and let Live run for a couple seconds, then stop Live. Make sure that the MIDI track that plays your setup will actually play it on your synth, i.e. it's routed to the correct MIDI port and MIDI channel, and monitoring is set to "Auto," not "On." At this point your synth should be set to the desired patch.
3) Now, you may record your MIDI performance into a *new* clip, let's call it "music."

That's the punchline...you now have two clips, setup and music. When you're done recording, you may edit the music clip to also contain the same program change (and delete setup), or just keep the setup and the music as two separate clips. In the latter case you'll need to remember to launch setup before you launch music if your synth has changed patches in the meantime.

It's up to you how you manage your setup clips, but here are some ideas: keeping all setup clips in a single scene, using follow actions, consolidating the setup and music clips in Arrangement View.

Hope this helps,
-Bill

Program Change Messages...Still in the Dark!

Program Change Messages...Still in the Dark!

unwanted program chane messages