PD vs Max/MSP/Jitter for visuals?

[last man on earth]

Obviously, the price (and the source) of PureData are influential here, but I've got student discount, so Max/MSP isn't that big of a buy for me...looking at interface quality mostly, as well as ease of use and possible known issues with one over the other when it comes to video output, quality, overall controller compatibility, and advanced FSUppedness for visual output and programming. I would try the Max demo, but feel that I couldn't figure enough out in the demo time allotted (I know I could get the 9 month license as well, but still, if the consensus is that PD is better, I'd rather not spend the dough).

Some video examples would be nice, if anyone can point me in the right direction (I searched google already...the stack of results was less than fun to go through).

Also, interested in generative visuals, fft/frequency analysis for visual manipulation, that sort of thing...I know that's sort of a broad description, and I know that some people take it so far as to get a doctorate in exactly that material, but I'm interested, and want to start off right.

If you post youtubes or links, please at least tell me what these people are using (I realize that many of these people will be very advanced in skill, but, again, looking to start off right).

Thanks!

EDIT: Mac user here, so unfortunately, VVVV is not an option.

[Lo-Fi Massahkah]

Does PD even do visuals and video?

.m

[Michael Hatsis]

Does PD even do visuals and video?

.m

Does PD even do visuals and video?

.m

supposedly with Gem you could more or less do wht Jitter does. Never tried it, and my pd experience is rather limited so i don't know first hand.
http://gem.iem.at/

@ last man on earth

Jitter is great for video, shaders, Pretty good with OpenGL stuff.

Do you code at all? Processing is free and really powerful for graphics and animations.

[scott nathaniel]

Does PD even do visuals and video?

.m

Yes, GEM-- the poor man's Jitter. I'm not too experienced with Gem to give a decent point of view on it.

Obviously, the price (and the source) of PureData are influential here, but I've got student discount, so Max/MSP isn't that big of a buy for me...looking at interface quality mostly, as well as ease of use and possible known issues with one over the other when it comes to video output, quality, overall controller compatibility, and advanced FSUppedness for visual output and programming. I would try the Max demo, but feel that I couldn't figure enough out in the demo time allotted

You should be able to decide if Max is for youwith a month long, no limitations demo. PD is not as pretty as Max. Functions are basically the same. PD documentation is adequate if you have an inclination for experimenting and trial and error. Max documentation is better. The pure data forum is frequented by knowledgeable chaps but most are using either Macs or Linux, so windows isn't PD friendly. I've been tinkering with pd and I would get Max if I could afford it. The price seems a bit steep, though.
My $699 for ya. I'll take that in Max/Msp/Jitter, thanks

[last man on earth]

I'm not a programmer to that extent - a fair amount of html/webwork, but nothing to fancy.

I did look at Processing, though, and it definitely looks interesting, on par with the stuff I've seen from Gem.

Honestly, I'm biased toward Max/MSP/Jitter because of the new improvements, M4L/Live Extended, and that I actually went to a tiny Max/MSP conference a few years ago in SF - I got to meet Andrew Benson and Gregory Taylor, super nice guys. But, I have to say that I'm really more interested in the visual side of things - there are enough audio-based patches out there for both PD and Max that I really wouldn't need to program something new - I'm looking to incorporate visuals into my thing, and want them to stand out/be stranger than your typical VJ stuff. I really dig the generative/fft based stuff that I've seen, moreso than the random hodgepodge of video clips out of most VJ's....With the Max 5 student discount putting the price at $250, that's real reasonable, and I do hear incredibly good things about Jitter in regard to the results I'm looking for.

[Human Koala]

i've made some visual performance with pure data and gem ( video sampling and manipulation in realtime )

http://www.pixelache.ac/2007/democracy- ... telepunch/
http://impala.utopia.free.fr/travaux/?id=49

and it can works great even it is not as polished as max/msp

HK

[3dot...]

VVVV

http://vvvv.org/tiki-index.php

Visual Jockey

http://www.visualjockey.com/gallery1.htm

[blackboab]

Yes ... if you are only into the visual side of things, I would heartily recommend VVVV

[3dot...]

Yes ... if you are only into the visual side of things, I would heartily recommend VVVV

...WRONG... VVVV also hosts VSTs now (!!!!)...
you can do some pretty crazy stuff with audio there as well...

[blackboab]

yes VVVV can handle audio ... but still very much geared towards video installations ...

Either way it is a very, very, very, very nice toolkit

by the way 3dot .... do u know if the latest build can handle AISO these days???

[joe.cavers]

We did a course in Pd at Uni last semester. Having seen and worked with that fairly extensively, and now having seen Max, I would go for Max. The GUI and extra bits n pieces here and there make it worth the money IMO.

JC

[3dot...]

yes VVVV can handle audio ... but still very much geared towards video installations ...

Either way it is a very, very, very, very nice toolkit

by the way 3dot .... do u know if the latest build can handle AISO these days???

...havn't used it in quite some time (years ...) but I stay in touch...
I don't think it supports ASIO....
but other than DirectX...
it has a "kernel streaming" option which supposedly eliminates latency issues...
hadn't tried it yet...

[3dot...]

from VVVV site :

"reclock
http://reclock.free.fr/
This free tool installs a kernelstreaming directshow renderer, which can be selected from vvvvs AudioOut (DShow9).
In the reclock configuration don't forget to select the "Kernel Streaming" audio interface for the soundcard you want to use. Like this you get low latency like with ASIO drivers.
"

[blackboab]

^^^
Tnxs ... I should look into that

[gpvillamil]

Well, PD is free, so the question is whether or not you want to buy Max/MSP/Jitter, isn't it?

PD, as a programming language, is more developed than Max: data structures stand out as a particular difference.

However, as a development environment, Max 5 is definitely smoother and easier - it feels a lot more modern.

Jitter's main advantage over GEM is the years of development, and the documentation. Also somewhat better for working with OpenGL and shaders, though this is changing.

Max has a number of extensions, like the Max Toolbar or Jamoma, that go a long way to shortening the learning curve.

I would go ahead and get Max, since you can get a student price. Learn Max using all the various tutorials and the great documentation. Then, get PD and spend some time exploring the differences. You might find that you'll want to use PD for specific projects, maybe based on things like the visual data structures it supports.