Thinkpad T400 / 500 owners - PC Card vs. Express Card Slot

[RCUS]

Hey guys,

The T400 i have on order comes with both an Express Card slot and PC Card slot and I have decided to get the Echo Indigo DJ on the count of its small size, and since I only need two outs.

I can use either port for this interface (PC slot would require an adapter). I was wondering if anyone had specific reasons for choosing one port over the other though? I will have all three of the USB ports taken on my T400 and I'm about 99.9% sure the new Thinkpads aren't using the TI chipset for firewire.

Any recommendations?

[noisetonepause]

I'm 90% sure the old Echo cards won't work in the ExpressCard slots, even with an adaptor - which exact model are you talking about? They have PC card versions (Indigo io and Indigo dj) and ExpressCard versions (iox and djx).

ExpressCard is newer and faster than PC card (PCIe vs. old 32-bit PCI). 2 io shouldn't exceed the bandwidth of either, though, and the latencies you can get with a PC card are pretty sweet as it stands. That said, I'd get an ExpressCard one if you can, as in two-three-five years, you'll probably have a difficult time finding a computer with a PC card slot.

[RCUS]

I'm 90% sure the old Echo cards won't work in the ExpressCard slots, even with an adaptor - which exact model are you talking about? They have PC card versions (Indigo io and Indigo dj) and ExpressCard versions (iox and djx).

ExpressCard is newer and faster than PC card (PCIe vs. old 32-bit PCI). 2 io shouldn't exceed the bandwidth of either, though, and the latencies you can get with a PC card are pretty sweet as it stands. That said, I'd get an ExpressCard one if you can, as in two-three-five years, you'll probably have a difficult time finding a computer with a PC card slot.

I was a little confused on which is discontinued and the mention of the PCI to Express Card adapters when I was researching threw me off a little...... but now having looked at it closer i guess I am trying to decide between the Indigo dj and Indigo djx - thank you for clearing that up for me!

You bring up an interesting point on futureproofing that I hadn't thought about. i think that may be the tipping point considering if I did want to add on say, a USB port, i could still do that with the PC card slot too.

I had read that a PC card slot has its own "path" to handle the audio processing on, while the Express Card shares that "path" with the other USB 2.0 devices that are connected. Is that true? Do you see any issues using the Express Card Slot with the Indigo djx along with running three or 4 USB devices (APC40, nanopad, Remote SL etc.)?

(I think i may just have read some bad info on this subject and it would be great to clear up....)

[noisetonepause]

ExpressCard is basically a handy physical form factor with two paths into the main system: a 1x PCIe connection (like a regular expansion card that you'd put in a computer tower) and one USB 2.0 connection. It's just a matter of size and shape, to the best of my knowledge there's no difference as far as the computer is concerned. Which to use is up to the card manufacturer -- for instance, an ExpressCard SD/CF card reader would likely use the USB as that's fast enough and very simple to do, whilst something like a Firewire card would most likely use the PCIe connection as you need that kind of speed for that. I think (but do not know for sure) that the djx is a PCIe device, that is, it doesn't actually use the USB connection on the ExpressCard.

I'm not sure if the USB buss that the ExpressCard connects to is the same as one that the ports on the side of your computer connects to. It might be. It probably depends on your computer... My X200, for instance, has two USB busses internally: one that handles the two ports on the left hand side, and one that handles the single port on the right hand side... I wish I had an ExpressCard here to test if the one on the left side also handles the ExpressCard USB connection. It might, actually.. also, the fingerprint reader and optional web cam are USB devices as well AFAIK, but I'm not sure exactly how they're connected. But as said, I don't know if the djx is USB. You could try emailing Echo to ask.

I don't have first hand experience with using that many USB MIDI devices at one time, so I don't know how well it'd work if the djx turned out to be USB. How've you been doing it up to now?

I know this isn't very helpful, but still I think I'd go for the ExpressCard. You might have no issues and ride off into the sunset - but if not, you could as you say get a USB PC card and take off some of the load in that way.

[rikhyray]

The PCMCIA will be waste of money, it is already legacy technology (though you can trace some on Ebay for around 50 Euros because of that). Echo xPress models are exactly same, wont work any better but like the old ones 100% no problem cards. The only card except RME that works even on Vista without issues. Only stupid thing about xpkress slot design- it does not lock like PCMCIA did so it is too easy to get it out. I bought a Swisscard for few Euro, keep it in same box(original of old EMU PCMCIA) with Echo and always secure the card with little plastic toothpick.
I have better cards too but in the end Indigo is the most used not only for work but everything else- movies etc.
The extra - 8 virtual outs so I can have for example Live and Traktor sharing it, easy to mix, sometimes work with Live, while talk on Skype, have TV in the corner of the screen and what not at the same time.
IBM uses shitty Ricoh on everything - PCMCIA,express, FW but I used Thinkpad with no issues, moved back to Sonys because of much better displays (IBM are unusable for any visual work) and all TI Austattung.

[RCUS]

WOW great information! thank all of you for your replies!

i am off to find out about the PCIe vs. USB connection type for the Echo Indigo DJx and I will report my findings here so others can benefit.

I probably am overthinking the whole thing, but I would definitely have piece of mind if I knew that the Indigo DJx used the PCIe connection type, since i'd be running so many USB devices on the T400

Oh and to answer your question noisetonepause, i use an Open Labs Miko TIM and am currently waiting for my T400 to arrive. The Miko TIM uses a Firebox that is built into the chassis, so the whole issue of Firewire vs. USB vs. Express Card has never come up before. Including all the USB interfaces that are built into the Miko, and all the external devices I own, I have a total of 12 USB devices, with approximately 9 that I use simultaneously. However, I am aiming to make my T400 as stable as possible, so it just seems logical to use the other ports if they are available, vs. stacking everything through USB.

thanks again!

[RCUS]

The PCMCIA will be waste of money, it is already legacy technology (though you can trace some on Ebay for around 50 Euros because of that). Echo xPress models are exactly same, wont work any better but like the old ones 100% no problem cards. The only card except RME that works even on Vista without issues. Only stupid thing about xpkress slot design- it does not lock like PCMCIA did so it is too easy to get it out. I bought a Swisscard for few Euro, keep it in same box(original of old EMU PCMCIA) with Echo and always secure the card with little plastic toothpick.
I have better cards too but in the end Indigo is the most used not only for work but everything else- movies etc.
The extra - 8 virtual outs so I can have for example Live and Traktor sharing it, easy to mix, sometimes work with Live, while talk on Skype, have TV in the corner of the screen and what not at the same time.
IBM uses shitty Ricoh on everything - PCMCIA,express, FW but I used Thinkpad with no issues, moved back to Sonys because of much better displays (IBM are unusable for any visual work) and all TI Austattung.

i may have just solved your loose card situation. I was just reading through the manual for the Indigo DJx and it said that your Indigo should come with a spacer to fit different sized Express Cards! check out page 8:

http://www.echoaudio.com/Downloads/Manu ... %201.0.pdf

[rikhyray]

The PCMCIA will be waste of money, it is already legacy technology (though you can trace some on Ebay for around 50 Euros because of that). Echo xPress models are exactly same, wont work any better but like the old ones 100% no problem cards. The only card except RME that works even on Vista without issues. Only stupid thing about xpkress slot design- it does not lock like PCMCIA did so it is too easy to get it out. I bought a Swisscard for few Euro, keep it in same box(original of old EMU PCMCIA) with Echo and always secure the card with little plastic toothpick.
I have better cards too but in the end Indigo is the most used not only for work but everything else- movies etc.
The extra - 8 virtual outs so I can have for example Live and Traktor sharing it, easy to mix, sometimes work with Live, while talk on Skype, have TV in the corner of the screen and what not at the same time.
IBM uses shitty Ricoh on everything - PCMCIA,express, FW but I used Thinkpad with no issues, moved back to Sonys because of much better displays (IBM are unusable for any visual work) and all TI Austattung.

i may have just solved your loose card situation. I was just reading through the manual for the Indigo DJx and it said that your Indigo should come with a spacer to fit different sized Express Cards! check out page 8:

http://www.echoaudio.com/Downloads/Manu ... %201.0.pdf

No, it has nothing to do with the 5/4 which are rare anyway (Echo writes about those), just the basic design of the express slots. There is push button on old PCMCIA slots- it sits firm, express is removed by pushing the card itself- very unsafe for us, since even slight touching the card can make is slide out but as I said the swiss toothpick works perfectly, you can move the whole notebook , it is as safe as could be. You can make good use of PCMCIA, these cards became dirt cheap on Ebay, you can get extra USB or FW for HDDs or whatever else
I use all 3 USBs, no issues

[RCUS]

the T400 does indeed use the PCIe bus of the PC Express card. the reply from Echo was it has to be PCIe because "USB 2.0 would not work very good". I know it seemed like a no-brainer but I had to check to make sure.

my indigo djx is on it's way and looks like i'll be adding 2 more USB 2.0 ports viat the leftover PCMCIA.

OT, just got my T400 on friday...that thing is a TANK! build quality is so solid. you gotta love the liquid drains underneath marked with the little water droplet symbol LOL! i had my doubts, but now I know i made the right decision.