This isn't really Ableton's fault and Ableton Live is very stable. The plugin philosophy is a great concept. I use UAD2, Brainworx, Native Instruments, including Maschine, Arturia, Lexicon, Microtonic... all of this stuff (except UAD2 because of the dedicated DSP express card, and Microtonic) gave me problems with VST. WindowsVista probably also doesn't help... I see the same problems over and over on internet forums.
Its clear to me that VST technology has alot of problems with most DAWs and plugins. Ableton sometimes crashes just by scaning some VSTs (like analog factory from arturia, that stoped crashing my ableton when I only included the automap plugin and moved the original one).
I also use Protools and they have a very different aproach with their RTA's plugins, wich i think is better. They recomend plugins and products from 3rd party makers that they know to be good.
The strong point of software vs hardware is this modularity and flexibility at a relatively low cost, but this has to be more stable because users want zero latency and zero bugs that, like you find on hardware.... Perhaps Ableton should develop a new standard. VST is just a Steinberg technology that got adopted. The number of Ableton users is, I assume, enough to justify something like that. Maybe Ableton and other DAWs could gang up and create a new standard or else, improve VST issues.
An alternative could be to have some sort of "Ableton VST Certificated Plugin" list. Plugin makers would be awarded this Ableton 100% compatibility, a bit like "Intel Inside" or something, if they met demanding stability tests on various OS.
The success of AKAI APC40 clearly shows that users like the idea of partnerships between reliable brands.
Just my 2cents.
better stability for plugins or alternative format to VST
Re: better stability for plugins or alternative format to VST
I'd also like to see Live NOT crash when plugin crashes. I don't know if this is possible, though... but maybe Live could isolate plugins more so that a plugin crash wouldn't take down the whole set? Instead, Live could just reload it and go on.
Juhana Lehtiniemi - Film composer with Ableton Live
Re: better stability for plugins or alternative format to VST
One possibility for that would be to create some kind of external "plugin browser hub" were plugins would be loaded. The only connection between live an that hub would be audio in/out and the plugin parameters. This hub would be an intermediary between Ableton and the plugins.posssu wrote:I'd also like to see Live NOT crash when plugin crashes. I don't know if this is possible, though... but maybe Live could isolate plugins more so that a plugin crash wouldn't take down the whole set? Instead, Live could just reload it and go on.
Re: better stability for plugins or alternative format to VST
But would the only way to prevent this hub from crashing whole Live be that it would be an external program (for example Rewire)? Which would make it way too awkward to use...? And if it ran as a plugin between the real plugins and Live, it could crash Live as well..lLBray wrote:One possibility for that would be to create some kind of external "plugin browser hub" were plugins would be loaded. The only connection between live an that hub would be audio in/out and the plugin parameters. This hub would be an intermediary between Ableton and the plugins.posssu wrote:I'd also like to see Live NOT crash when plugin crashes. I don't know if this is possible, though... but maybe Live could isolate plugins more so that a plugin crash wouldn't take down the whole set? Instead, Live could just reload it and go on.
Juhana Lehtiniemi - Film composer with Ableton Live
Re: better stability for plugins or alternative format to VST
[/quote]
But would the only way to prevent this hub from crashing whole Live be that it would be an external program (for example Rewire)? Which would make it way too awkward to use...? And if it ran as a plugin between the real plugins and Live, it could crash Live as well..l[/quote]
You're right, but my original idea was just having another format alternative to VST... Ableton devices and instruments are more stable and efective in CPU usage than most 3rd party plugins and sometimes they are quite complex, like Operator, Sampler, Filter Delay... they feel sturdy and I dont think they ever crashed my set. Perhaps 3rd party makers should be encouraged to develop their plugins in Ableton environment, but keeping a distinctive skin. 3rd party plugin makers could benefict being endorsed and promoted by Ableton Live brand.
But would the only way to prevent this hub from crashing whole Live be that it would be an external program (for example Rewire)? Which would make it way too awkward to use...? And if it ran as a plugin between the real plugins and Live, it could crash Live as well..l[/quote]
You're right, but my original idea was just having another format alternative to VST... Ableton devices and instruments are more stable and efective in CPU usage than most 3rd party plugins and sometimes they are quite complex, like Operator, Sampler, Filter Delay... they feel sturdy and I dont think they ever crashed my set. Perhaps 3rd party makers should be encouraged to develop their plugins in Ableton environment, but keeping a distinctive skin. 3rd party plugin makers could benefict being endorsed and promoted by Ableton Live brand.