I feel cheated

stockylocky · Post by **stockylocky** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:58 am

Hi all, I have owned suite editions of live since 7 and love it as a program. However the real reason I purchased live 8 when it was released was for the heavily advertised max 4 live. I also liked the idea of live online collaberations which still does not work correctly. Obviously m4live is only arriving now and with a hefty price tag - how come is early adopters aren't being rewarded for our patience with some form of discount? Instead ableton are clearly only after the new buck offering discounts to new buyers. This makes me very sad as I've always felt ableton do actually care however a lot of us paid for features we still don't have because we were acting in good faith. Also considering the number of is who have supported the new hardware releases from the off is it wrong of me to expect a little loyalty back in the form of a discount for m4l?

UKRuss · Post by **UKRuss** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:01 am

You feel cheated. This is just an illusion. The reality is what you paid for was worth it.

plus, early adopters have no patience, which is why they adopt early.

...I don't feel I've helped. sorry.

stockylocky · Post by **stockylocky** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:10 am

Not helpful - I have been waiting a long time for features which have yet to appear. It's not even as of the price is reasonable. The illusion was when o put my faith in ableton to look after my best interests.

logic_user99 · Post by **logic_user99** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:46 am

Oh boo-f**king-hoo. You bought some software and now the manufacturer aren't rewarding you for buying it just because their premature marketing told you to...

If you want M4L, pay for it. It's Max/MSP with Live integration. Hell, you'd pay more for Max5 if you bought it separately. How do you think all of those patient Max users feel for stumping up some £600 for Max and then paying at least £150 for Live 8, only to be told they have to pay MORE!

I'd put my money on they don't care!

STFU.

gliiitches gliiitches gliiitches · Post by **gliiitches gliiitches gliiitches** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:32 am

To be fair, I don't think Ableton have ever suggested that Max for Live will come as part of Live 8 or be free to Live 8 users. It's been clear from the start that MfL will be an add on - hence the term 'Extend' in relation to it.

I would agree that it is frustrating when new developments are announced so far in advance. On the other hand, if Max for Live hadn't been announced ages ago I may well have bought Max/MSP by now. So by knowing about MfL well in advance, I've saved money.

necho · Post by **necho** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:41 am

I don't get this sense of entitlement thing...

8O · Post by 8O » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:44 am

gliiitches gliiitches gliiitches wrote:To be fair, I don't think Ableton have ever suggested that Max for Live will come as part of Live 8 or be free to Live 8 users. It's been clear from the start that MfL will be an add on - hence the term 'Extend' in relation to it.

I would agree that it is frustrating when new developments are announced so far in advance. On the other hand, if Max for Live hadn't been announced ages ago I may well have bought Max/MSP by now. So by knowing about MfL well in advance, I've saved money.

Exactly! Right from the start M4L said "pricing to be announced...". Same with the share feature.

8O · Post by 8O » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:45 am

stockylocky wrote:The illusion was when o put my faith in ableton to look after my best interests.

Strange expectations. Do you have the same expectations when you buy anything else?

necho · Post by **necho** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:11 pm

OK - how about some perspective:

I live in a shitty rental house in Oxford. Oxford is officially the UK's least affordable city - I pay a lot of money for this house (which I share with a housemate).

The house has terribly energy efficiency and suffers from penetrating and rising damp. The only way to combat the damp is to crank up the heating, which costs us a fortune - largely because of the terrible insulation.

I suffer from asthma and I have had an almost constant chest infection since I moved into this house. My doctor says its likely to be exacerbated by the black mold that just keeps coming back, no matter how hard we try to keep things clean.

The other day, I discovered that two of my pillows, the edge of my duvet , my only suit, my rather natty trilby, my studio chair and the sofa are all going showing signs of mold.

I've been negotiating with the letting agent for a while - trying to make them see that if they reduce the rent slightly, we'll be able to spend more on heating the house and help avoid damage to the property.

Yesterday, they sent us a letter, saying they were going to kick us out of the house and take our full deposit because they had evidence that we had caused "serious structural damage to the property through negligence".

I feel cheated.

sowhoso · Post by **sowhoso** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:21 pm

necho wrote:OK - how about some perspective:

I live in a shitty rental house in Oxford. ...

too bad you don't live in the states, you'd have 100 lawyers at your doorstep with 100 different reasons to sue your landlord

necho · Post by **necho** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:24 pm

sowhoso wrote:
necho wrote:OK - how about some perspective:

I live in a shitty rental house in Oxford. ...
too bad you don't live in the states, you'd have 100 lawyers at your doorstep with 100 different reasons to sue your landlord

yeah - I've looked up stuff on mould and damp.... it seems like tenants can fight back in the states...

Rave · Post by **Rave** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:25 pm

necho wrote:OK - how about some perspective:

I live in a shitty rental house in Oxford. Oxford is officially the UK's least affordable city - I pay a lot of money for this house (which I share with a housemate).

The house has terribly energy efficiency and suffers from penetrating and rising damp. The only way to combat the damp is to crank up the heating, which costs us a fortune - largely because of the terrible insulation.

I suffer from asthma and I have had an almost constant chest infection since I moved into this house. My doctor says its likely to be exacerbated by the black mold that just keeps coming back, no matter how hard we try to keep things clean.

The other day, I discovered that two of my pillows, the edge of my duvet , my only suit, my rather natty trilby, my studio chair and the sofa are all going showing signs of mold.

I've been negotiating with the letting agent for a while - trying to make them see that if they reduce the rent slightly, we'll be able to spend more on heating the house and help avoid damage to the property.

Yesterday, they sent us a letter, saying they were going to kick us out of the house and take our full deposit because they had evidence that we had caused "serious structural damage to the property through negligence".

I feel cheated.

I think they are trying to get to you before you sue them. You could get the house condemned.

Counter sue.

$4mU3l · Post by **$4mU3l** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:38 pm

davepermen · Post by **davepermen** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:45 pm

as if the only thing in live 8 that's new and awesome is max 4 live. of course they haven't changed ANYTHING ELSE worth paying for..

feel cheated if you want, you payed for live 8, not for max 4 live, and you knew that back then.

UKRuss · Post by **UKRuss** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:10 pm

necho wrote:OK - how about some perspective:

I live in a shitty rental house in Oxford. Oxford is officially the UK's least affordable city - I pay a lot of money for this house (which I share with a housemate).

The house has terribly energy efficiency and suffers from penetrating and rising damp. The only way to combat the damp is to crank up the heating, which costs us a fortune - largely because of the terrible insulation.

I suffer from asthma and I have had an almost constant chest infection since I moved into this house. My doctor says its likely to be exacerbated by the black mold that just keeps coming back, no matter how hard we try to keep things clean.

The other day, I discovered that two of my pillows, the edge of my duvet , my only suit, my rather natty trilby, my studio chair and the sofa are all going showing signs of mold.

I've been negotiating with the letting agent for a while - trying to make them see that if they reduce the rent slightly, we'll be able to spend more on heating the house and help avoid damage to the property.

Yesterday, they sent us a letter, saying they were going to kick us out of the house and take our full deposit because they had evidence that we had caused "serious structural damage to the property through negligence".

I feel cheated.

You need to write back formally.

1. You should request a copy of their evidence so your solicitor can view it (doesnt matter if you're not actually going to do this)

2. You will vacate the property in line with the terms of your contract.

3. You expect return of deposit in full following the departure inspection of the property which you will attend with your solicitor. (Get a friend to qwear a suit and look solicitorish with a copy of your rental agreement in hand)

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