After Effects vs VJ programs vs M4L w/Jitter

[Jekblad]

I like to rip up vids for on stage production, play the effects like you would in Live etc. After Effects is probably the standard (not for live use).

wondering if it should be preparing clips with after effects and firing them w/Resolume Avenue or M4L.
Or just using the house effects in a Dj program.

anythoughts would be great. I don't own M4L OR jitter, so i think that's the most expensive option right now... fwiw

[john doe by choice]

After-Effects is a non-linear editor for visual effects - it isn't suitable at all for use live.

There have been a few programs mentioned in here lately regarding video manipulation, but what I would suggest (and am a week away from getting) is something like Vidvox - it can work with live, but more on the level of intercepting MIDI output from Live for use to trigger video clips, plus it's got a huge ton of features and effects, although I have to say I've only looked a little into Resolume. The other nice thing about Vidvox is that it can manipulate controls published by Quartz Composer, a free program that comes with OSX that can produce different types of visual/visual effects (generally known for creating OSX screensavers, but can be used for tons of other applications). If you are looking into Jitter, check out quartz composer first, since it's free, and there are lots of tutorials online for it.

[ethios4]

It depends on how much control you want to have in realtime. If you just want to fire clips, make them in AE with whatever fx you want and simply trigger them in any number of VJ programs ( arkaos, resolume, modul8, vdmx, etc). If you want realtime control you need to get a VJ program with good fx. Any of the one's above will do. Resolume 2 is really nice since it supports Freeframe effects, but Resolume 3 only supports freeframe 2 plugins, of which there are far fewer.

Max/Jitter will enable you to do anything you want, but then you are looking at a ton of backend programming work also. But I've seen crazy stuff, like the multi-hex array output program, etc.

[bosonHavoc]

check out livid too

some of my friends use it for doing visuals around town
we had mike abb come out to our user group workshop last month and do a
class on using the ohm 64 with ableton and livid at the same time on one computer.

this is a direction i would really like to go with our performance rig too.

here are some visuals of visuals

http://vimeo.com/8271363

[scientist]

after effects can be used for manipulating preexisting footage (offline, of course), but its forte is in generating visuals from scratch. my work here is all after effects (minus the first one and the eames stuff of course):
http://strongforthefuture.com/?page_id=148

also, if you want to edit footage, it's not the best choice since each piece of edited footage needs its own layer (much like photoshop). it can get messy real quick. if all you want to do is apply effects to preexisting footage and/or edit it you're better off use fcp, premiere, or done of the apps designed for live performance.

[ethios4]

Nice to see some AV work! Good stuff!

[formatk]

I create all content in after effects and create tour visuals and animations for a lot of successful artists and DJ's. I think it's best to create great looking content in one program and have other tools for playing things back in. Quite often now I'm asked to make DVD's for pioneer DVJ's as they're super reliable. I currently use VDMX to playback video, it's ok, not great it's not that responsive when you get a lot going at once. I also use a program called Isadora for more site specific work and installations. If it was me I'd render videos with the effects you want and find a simple app to play your videos back. this way there's less likely to have things go wrong on the night and chances are it'll look better.

[synnack]

Max/Jitter will enable you to do anything you want, but then you are looking at a ton of backend programming work also. But I've seen crazy stuff, like the multi-hex array output program, etc.

tons of backend to do? Naw, free stuff all over to do exactly this with Maxforlive.

http://cycling74.com/2010/01/07/a-video ... -for-live/

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/index.php?tag=video

http://cycling74.com/2009/09/23/the-vid ... em-part-4/

etc...

You can create a device that plays through a folder of video clips with Max for live within minutes. Then, not only do you get this Video ability, but access to hundreds of Max for live devices you are not able to use for music!

Another issue is, what CPU/memory hit can you take? If you are going to run the video from the same machine as your audio, you will want to compare these options in terms of performance. I would personally never risk running my full set on stage via Ableton with a full blown VJ app going doing video effects in real-time all on one machine.

[ze2be]

after effects can be used for manipulating preexisting footage (offline, of course), but its forte is in generating visuals from scratch. my work here is all after effects (minus the first one and the eames stuff of course):
http://strongforthefuture.com/?page_id=148

also, if you want to edit footage, it's not the best choice since each piece of edited footage needs its own layer (much like photoshop). it can get messy real quick. if all you want to do is apply effects to preexisting footage and/or edit it you're better off use fcp, premiere, or done of the apps designed for live performance.

tencore: at around 02:25, How are you doing that drawing and mirroring? I guess you use AEs paint tool, and rewind, paint, rewind, paint 2nd stroke, rewind, paint 3rd stroke, and so on. Then mirror it. After that, duplicate the compositions, and layer them. But how do you align all the nested compositions?

I want to create something similar. Indian style inspired psychedelic ornaments and natural patterns that grow.

The hardest part for me with leaning AE is: the endless amount of small or medium to long periods of waiting time, for cpu and ram calculations, during work.

[scientist]

tencore: at around 02:25, How are you doing that drawing and mirroring? I guess you use AEs paint tool, and rewind, paint, rewind, paint 2nd stroke, rewind, paint 3rd stroke, and so on. Then mirror it. After that, duplicate the compositions, and layer them. But how do you align all the nested compositions?

I want to create something similar. Indian style inspired psychedelic ornaments and natural patterns that grow.

The hardest part for me with leaning AE is: the endless amount of small or medium to long periods of waiting time, for cpu and ram calculations, during work.

the 'growing' is generated using ae's 'write-on' command. you essentially create a path that traces your imported artwork and uncovers it frame by frame. then the one piece is duplicated, rotated, scaled, etc. and attached via parent/child relationships to form larger objects that in turn can be nested in even larger ones. and yeah, there's a lot of patience involved in ae work, very non-real time.

[ze2be]

the 'growing' is generated using ae's 'write-on' command. you essentially create a path that traces your imported artwork and uncovers it frame by frame. then the one piece is duplicated, rotated, scaled, etc. and attached via parent/child relationships to form larger objects that in turn can be nested in even larger ones. and yeah, there's a lot of patience involved in ae work, very non-real time.

I see. you wouldn't get "arrow heads" etc with that drawing tool. (don't remember the name of the drawing tool function) still, could it be a quicker way to create similar figure animations?

[Jekblad]

dedicated MBP don't remember the specs.

thanks for all this great info so far! please continue anyone. a

and awesome stuff here man. i want to be able to do this.

http://strongforthefuture.com/?page_id=148

[scientist]

still, could it be a quicker way to create similar figure animations?

yeah if you don't need more than a single line with no adornement iirc it's the same tool, in it there are options for e.g. brush size, opacity, color, and one of the options is along the lines of "reveal layer", which is what will do the trick with imported artwork. otherwise it just draws a line. there are a lot of steps involved in getting from a to b and it's really easy to forget something. iirc there's a tutorial on creativecow that shows how to do it.

@jekblad...thanks. it's a ton of work, but you definitely end up with unique results. forgot to mention that for live shows i keep things very stripped down...just import a ton of clips into the now defunct 'grid' app and trigger clips in time with the music. hopefully i'll be dusting off the ideas soon and integrating everything using m4l.