Who needs pan control on stage?

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:56 am

Hi.. there are a vew consistent things when i talk with other electronic musicans in berlin...

Sofar i only came along a 100% singular opinion about the pan knobs on the APC or LP..
Nobody seems to like them...
first because you get signals easily out of the middle by accident.. as soon you connect the apc you can be sure that after a few hours no pan is in the middle anymore.. and..

nobody needs pan knobs on stage.. they use autopanners.. or have it in the clips.. use the utility plug because it can control stereo width and is therfore better for stereo pans...
Everybody i talked with stated to never use the pans 8-/

Is that true for everybody or a huge part of the user base?

I see that you needs pans with prootols because ther are no stereo tracks..

but with ableton live? for directional mixing the utility plug is allways the better choice... and in a mix you usualy dont want to touch them or have them changing to dont alter the stereo field in the middle of the mixes..

So why we need pan on the controler when its rather a fixed setting or done with fx plugs?

I would like to know how realistic it is to assume that we can get rid of pan knobs by now.. like apple is getting rid of the firewire port .. modern times..modern controlers?

Poll Time

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:01 am

I didn't vote in the poll because there was no option for: "I use the pans all the time in both the studio and the stage".

and uh... ARE YOU FREAKING INSANE? Lets just get rid of volume faders while we're at it! Plenty of workarounds for that!

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:31 am

its about real exsisting hardware knobs.. do you need to pan by hand or are you just setting the pans in the mix and thats where they stay?

Do you move the pans by hand during the liveshow?

In case you need to move them by hand on stage you should vote that option.. because its more likely to need them in the studio for final mixing than on stage wher people usually have other things to do than being to artistic about the stereo field..

so i would assume that voting for live use gives it more wight..but please stick to the truth.. i think its interesting.. there are many ways of working.. when my kollegs share my opinion it can be related to teh music style

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:56 am

It's cause Pitch Black has so many damn knobs in his setup (saw it in your video) he can afford to have those all included

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:54 am

3phase wrote:... on stage wher people usually have other things to do than being to artistic about the stereo field..

so i would assume that voting for live use gives it more wight..but please stick to the truth.. i think its interesting.. there are many ways of working.. when my kollegs share my opinion it can be related to teh music style

But "being artistic with the stereo field" is one of our Big Numbers.

Hippies love stereo!!!!!!!

xxx

FLaKes · Post by **FLaKes** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:13 am

Lol, I only pan the instruments once and leave them like that through the rest of the song... very rarely do I mess with them, and when I do its for fx reasons.

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:04 am

so only hippys use pan knobs theese days? i see..all knobs are gods creatures... 8-/

what you think about a joystick ?..we give you a joystick and get rid of the pans..deal?

anybody human · Post by **anybody human** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:26 am

No, I don't. And I don't rock the wah wah disco style either. Clip envelopes if u want to send the crowd into a frenzy with panning from outerspace. Just kidding, it's just not used as much these days I guess. To some people it's an essential tool.

What bothers me is that the pan knobs on the APC40 don't seem to map smoothly to other devices. I just bought a Nocturn, it's ok but the feel of the APC knobs is way better. Does the Zero/Remote SL have the same knobs as the Nocturn?

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:58 am

pan an essential tool? i think stereo is way overrated

but i am ok with one pan knob..that is assignd to the selected track automatical.. one is enough...

Its a bit funny that on modern desks we have many global knobs that are adressed to one or more selcted channels instead giving each track a dedicated knob for all parameters...

In faderbox design it seems theese concept is not been overtaken yet.. the copy the old fshioned mixingdesk..

Of cause its good to have a dedicated knob for each function.. but on a daaw ? we wont will have this ever...

every small analog console comes with hudreds of knobs... youl never will see such a gigantic fader box as a comercial product.. ups.. i forget the digidesign icon...

Anyway.. ther are a few parameters in ableton live that get adressed globaly..like clip transpose..

one knob assignment for all clips..just the selcted clip/track gets the knob..

I would suggest to expand on this concept..

The PAn parameter is defently one that could be handled globaly pretty well..

actual thats the way its done on all modern suround consoles.. you have 2 joysticks..because humans have to hands.. that can be adressed to any cannel.. you might note here that 2 selections can be done..

flippo · Post by **flippo** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:01 am

Pitch Black wrote:
3phase wrote:... on stage wher people usually have other things to do than being to artistic about the stereo field..

so i would assume that voting for live use gives it more wight..but please stick to the truth.. i think its interesting.. there are many ways of working.. when my kollegs share my opinion it can be related to teh music style
But "being artistic with the stereo field" is one of our Big Numbers.

Hippies love stereo!!!!!!!

xxx

haha, I've noticed that! I've had a hippie DJ mate jump on mid set and ride the pan fader on a DJ mixer while I was playing . We where all pretty drunk and it was mostly for the lulz. Dub rig crowd however, mono.

I would definitely get more use out of 4 sends as apposed to 3 sends and a pan for live use, although it's hand to have for studio.

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:18 am

flippo wrote: I would definitely get more use out of 4 sends as apposed to 3 sends and a pan for live use, although it's hand to have for studio.

you are reffering to the APC? i rather would sugest to ahve a global control page instead wher the user can asign parameters that than get automatical adressed to the selected channel.. so if you select first knob in first device it will be first knob in first device in any selected channel..or a pan or 8 aux sends or what ever.. that would be much more usefull than theese fixed architecture..

of cause you can reassign any control of the apc. but they dont go dynamical with the tracks than anymore..

i really wonder why theese products arrive on the market with such a rough software implemantation / support.

It´s possible that its a concept to deliver half ready products to sell updates.. but with hardware?
A controler is something that is integrated in the workflow like an instrument.. you dont like to learn it again with every update..

especially because older projekts wouldnt be controlable than anymore.. what actually shows a problem future might bring..

it would be probably very handy if not essential at one point that controler assignments could be safed and applied independend from the other session data...

but maybe ther are some tricks to achive that that are not mentioned in the manual to dont confuse the user

I would wish that such things like controlers would be ready developed when arriving on the market as in the good ol days of hardware instruments.. and not get developed while using them, as a process over years...

But maybe its just that theese products was designed quickly with litle budgets and the developers was forced to keep it simple.. a bit too simple IMO

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:32 pm

midi reassign the pan knobs. solved.

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:midi reassign the pan knobs. solved.

Not exactly, they'd be reassigned to a permanent spot.. meaning when you scroll they aren't going to scroll with the rest of the stuff..

People want to be able to reassign to say Send D, and have those knobs scroll just like the volumes, and the other sends, etc.. get what I'm sayin?

caaflex · Post by **caaflex** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:54 pm

aren't most big sound rigs mono anyway?

and yeah, like the guy before said, if you don't like it, reassign it.

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:01 pm

caaflex wrote:aren't most big sound rigs mono anyway?

and yeah, like the guy before said, if you don't like it, reassign it.

Read 3phases' response, he'll explain why reassigning wouldn't help very much.

Who needs pan control on stage?

Do you need real pan knobs on stage or in Studio?

Who needs pan control on stage?

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