About this community - Much love, but.. be more friendly..

[geiseric]

I've been spending the last year and a half learning to use ableton, and I get a lot of the answers to questions I have by perusing your forum (I have asked a few questions, but I primarily lurk, mostly due to this issue..). Sometimes, and I've noticed become out of control lately.. Half of the threads are populated by "Read the manual!!"and other dismissive answers, and 90% of the time, the answer cannot be found that simply- its just a knee jerk reaction from self righteous individuals that I am sure represent a minority of members.. But seriously.. Enough is enough.. It really colors my experience here, and with the amount of money I've dumped on my ableton branded gear and licenses, I expect a respectful environment from the community that is supposedly part of its support network.. Be more friendly. Even if the answer is in the manual, there is obviously a reason people ask questions, and with the overwhelming number of threads, searching doesn't always yield answers. I've never even been called out like that, but reading it over and over in other people's threads makes me flinch.. Ableton 8 has many, many bugs, and coming into an environment where people get dismissed out of hand for asking questions really makes getting around those bugs a chore.

I don't mean to just vent, I really think this is an issue here. Thank you to the constructive members, I know you are out there.

[SubFunk]

sugar? i prefer chillies!

[Tone Deft]

there are two things worse than an RTFM response.

1 - posting just to take a jab at someone's nationality or some off topic buillshit banter.

2 - lurking for years and not manning up and helping people.


FFS stop your whining and be the change you want to see. you just sit on the sideline, mooch our free advice, you don't step in to help instead you feel like you can direct us to how we should act while you sit back and watch. when you see an RTFM response fill in the advice!!

oh Master, please do tell us how we can better serve you.

[agent314]

This is totally in the manual, dude.

[H20nly]

yes.

[macmurphy]

I agree. If someone posts a question or has a problem then those who reply with RTFM or any other such arsey remark they should shut up. There's really no need.

[geiseric]

Tone Deft- Wow. Way to make my point for me. Is this really how the people here act?

[macmurphy]

Ha! Ever the diplomat, Tone

[H20nly]

Tone Deft- Wow. Way to make my point for me. Is this really how the people here act?

I think you're both right in this case. Think about it.

[Tone Deft]

Tone Deft- Wow. Way to make my point for me. Is this really how the people here act?

read closely, did the " " mean anything to you? that was humor, get it? the irony was lost on you, oh well, it's Monday.

some people spend LOTS of time answering questions. how many have YOU answered? an RTFM answer is only slightly worse than what you do. you see these things go down but you just step over the problem, you don't help, you just tell other people to fix it. you won't find this strategy working in life, people are not your puppets.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE.

lighten up, I'm only lightly busting your balls.



now make me laugh, bitch.

[8O]

I dunno, apart from the takeover mode question just now, I haven't seen many other RTFM responses recently - specially for Live 8 bugs/stability issues - and even that thread seems to be going ok. I think this place has been relatively helpful in that respect recently. Do you have specific threads in mind?

[geiseric]

"FFS stop your whining and be the change you want to see. you just sit on the sideline, mooch our free advice, you don't step in to help instead you feel like you can direct us to how we should act while you sit back and watch. when you see an RTFM response fill in the advice!!

oh Master, please do tell us how we can better serve you."

-Not sure how the emoticons are supposed to change that into ..anything other than you telling me I have no right to complain, in an albeit inflammatory fashion. You imply that by posting, I would gain that right, but that is exactly what I am trying to avoid, and that would make me a hypocrite. I don't have that much expertize or experience with ableton, and my contributions would be meaningless. I am 10 million miles from being an expert, and if I were posting to other peoples questions, it would be fluff. I paid for Live, this is an ABLETON forum, and I DO have a right to be here, just as much so as any other ableton product owner.

I wrote this because I felt that searching through threads packed with flaming and zero substance is making my experience on the board unpleasant, and I felt it was enough of an issue to me that others may also have it. I HOPED someone would take it seriously, and keep it in mind when they saw questions they thought were stupid, and, instead of flaming, simply ignored the questions, making it easier (and less aggravating) for those of us who actually want to get work done to find the answers we need.

I'm not looking to start anything with anyone, in fact I thank you for illustrating exactly my problem. People talk like that socially, and its fine there. But- Ableton has a huge customer base, and Live is plagued by many bugs- and due to the variability of hardware, much of the issues cannot be addressed en masse. Thus, people like me are forced to search through all of the conversations that have occurred here in search of very specific answers, and deal with the social climate created by comments like that. All I'm saying is.. Be friendly.. I just want to learn, not watch online drama unfold.

-to 80.. It depends on the day, I just picked up a Zero SL MKII and I have been reading a lot of posts (recent and old) based around it, and half of them are very helpful, but the other half are painful to read. When the subject matter is new hardware or software, its seems to be at its worst. It makes me sad. Have you ever been in a classroom where people yelled at each other for not knowing something? How constructive would that be?

[swishniak]

i think this board is better than alot of them out there.. (and one learns how to take tone and subfunk's attitudes with a grain of salt .

my experience is that if you have a real question people are here to answer it.

and if they write RTFM, then, well its time to RTFM.

[SubFunk]

i think this board is better than alot of them out there.. (and one learns how to take tone and subfunk's attitudes with a grain of salt .

my experience is that if you have a real question people are here to answer it.

and if they write RTFM, then, well its time to RTFM.

precisely.

maybe it is just difficult to get into it, because here are a lot of odd & fun characters around that more or less know each other by now... and we now how to take things... grow balls and get involved, we cook hotter then we eat.

[Tone Deft]

you think only experts can answer questions? that's so freaking wrong. man up and start answering questions, so what if you're wrong, that's a GREAT way to learn. I do it all the time, there's no clearer way to know what you REALLY do and don't know.

btw no, I don't like lurkers, they do nothing to help the community, they just watch and judge, ahem, case in point.

BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE. your basic point is obvious but your execution won't work, we are not your puppets but we're here for Live, tunes and for many of us, an escape from work.

i think this board is better than alot of them out there.. (and one learns how to take tone and subfunk's attitudes with a grain of salt .

my experience is that if you have a real question people are here to answer it.

and if they write RTFM, then, well its time to RTFM.

precisely.

maybe it is just difficult to get into it, because here are a lot of odd & fun characters around that more or less know each other by now... and we now how to take things... grow balls and get involved, we cook hotter then we eat.

+1 to you both. LOL!!