Workflow

robert_philp · Post by **robert_philp** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:44 pm

Hi all, this thread has probably been posted many times so i'll hope you'll forgive me being a newbie

I have had Live for a few months, little time to play cos of my degree but got to grips with some basics.

So currently i am have MIDI clips with VSTi synths and also drum loops etc, and i set up a few scenes for an intro, build-up and different parts of track etc.

I jam around these a bit and mes with my filters and stuff, but it still seems to lack something and i tends to sound too "blocky".

So i was thinking of just using the session view as a loop scratch pad then drag bits over to make a track in arrangement view. Do many others do things this way, and do you find this a good workflow?

Cheers in advance, i know i've only scratched the surface of Live but its already getting very interesting

ashley_k · Post by **ashley_k** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:47 am

Robert,

The way you have described working with live is the way I most often work,
starting from the top of the session view and working down starting
with intros, build-ups, breaks, etc.

When I have between 10-20 scenes – this figure varies considerably
depending on the type of tune/project I’m working on at the time,
I’ve usually got my basic effects in place by this time as well.

Once the scenes flow reasonable well together, I then paste them into
arrange view, it’s then that you can really start to shape the tune and
change it around, add single hits, automation, mix, etc.

Session can sound blocky sometimes; you could try keeping elements
going from one scene to next, so that scenes have a common element
linking them, this may help to make them sound less blocky.
(Note: I’m not suggesting that every scene needs to link to the next one
with a common elements every time!)
Try also to smooth out any big jumps in volume between scenes as well,
using the clips volume control. You can also use the clips volume control
in the arrange view instead of automation/envelopes to start with
(unless you want to fade parts).
Sorry if the above two suggestion sound a bit obvious!

Try and get a few basic tunes finished without digging too deeply into Live
and don’t spend vast amounts of time trying to make them perfect, in the
long run you’ll find the more tunes you finish, the more you learn and the
better the tunes get, also you won’t end up wasting time trying to achieve
something, only later to find out there is an easier way of doing it.

Live enables you to work in many ways depending on your requirements
from performer, producer, DJ, etc. Just try out different ways until you
find the easiest one for you and the tune/project your working on.

Hope this helps.

Ashley_K

robert_philp · Post by **robert_philp** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:49 am

Cheers Ashley

I have been arsing about with music production for a good few years, and i am certainly still an amateur and not musically trained!

However i find Live helps my inevitable creative block a lot, nice and quick to mess around and throw together ideas.

You mention DJing and thats somethingi like too, i have some CD decks and i did wonder about trying to integrate the 2, mixing tracks from CDs and also adding loops and FX from Live into the mix. It might be tricky learning to very quickly set up loops correctly in live, and have them at correct tempo etc, but i think there's an acorn of an idea there!

I was thinking i could feed the sound from my decks master out into my PC, and then into live so its playing "straight through" as it were, and then i can add and trigger my other stuff with clips and the like in session view.
Only problem being how do i monitor my external mixer for cueing up CD tracks, and also monitor seperately what i play through live.

Any thoughts on this?

ashley_k · Post by **ashley_k** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:52 pm

Robert,

I’ve not used Live as a DJ tool yet, I started a mix CD but I just never got around to
finishing it!

Personally I wouldn’t bother trying to integrate external CD decks with live, it looks far
too complicated, dealing with monitoring the sources, latency and jumping between CD
decks and computer, etc. You could give it a try but I think you’ll find it much easier to
do it all in Live, just rip the tracks from CD, drop them into Live, warp them and away
you go. I know ripping CDs and warping takes time but I think you’ll find it’s the best
solution.

If you search the forums you’ll find more information on how to DJ with Live and
warping audio.

I too have been trying to produce music for a good few years, I’m not musically trained
or a professional musician by any means, but with the help of Live my tunes/productions
are gradually getting better and starting to sound more professional. I’ve got a lot closer
to my goal using Live than I did with Logic, I still haven’t got it quite right yet, I’m still
having trouble getting the final mix right. I need to sort out some decent monitors in the
near future; this should make my mixes a lot more accurate.

Ashley_K

robert_philp · Post by **robert_philp** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:44 pm

Ashley,

In my opinion mixing is one of the hardest skills to learn and master, Its one of those things where you can spend ages and think you've got it just right, only to hear it on a different system and realise its a mash of clashing frequencies! As far as i can tell, only a small minority ever develop a real "knack" for mixing, the rest of us struggle with it every single time!

As for the DJing thing, i am certainly interested in the idea of importing tracks and warping them etc so they can be used to DJ.

One thing though - surely having an entire record collection on your HD as WAV files takes up a ridiculous amount of space? And posibly time-consuming to warp every track of my 150+ strong CD collection.

Another thing i thought about the CD decks was that you can do simple mixing with CDs like normal, but if fed through live you could also sample bits and loop them etc, add FX etc.

I was thinking that if you did all the monitoring through live it would n't be so bad would it? That way i can monitor Live through my second soundcard, and have very precise mix control over each CD deck as well as sampling capabilities and FX, adding my own loops etc.

In that regard, it'd be like having the worlds most advanced sampling DJ mixer!! But with things that a hardware DJ mixer could never do.

ashley_k · Post by **ashley_k** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:01 pm

Robert,

Trying to mix tracks in room with flawed acoustics and poor monitors is not a going be a success in the long run. I think I’m probably going to try the Yamaha MSP3 monitors, they’ve been getting good reviews and are about all I can afford, I certainly want to try and crack the art of mixing.

Your not far wrong about the amount of space needed if you transferred all of your 150+ CDs to your HD as WAV files for use in Live, my guess is that you’ll probably need about 100gb of HD space! Although given the fairly low prices of HD now days even 100gb of HD space is beginning to sound a realistic amount.

I finally bit the bullet and fitted a new 300gb Maxtor HD a few weeks ago, I got fed up with the lack of HD space, I really pushed the boat out and got the largest I could afford, the Maxtor was not cheap at £140 but it’s probably money well spent.

I’m not even going too think about the amount of time it would take to do the ripping and warping.

As for having the ”world most advanced sampling DJ mixer” it’s certainly possible – give it a try!

Maybe other Live users will have a better idea of how best to achieve this.

Are you going to be trying the “world most advanced sampling DJ mixer” out on the general public or just in the privacy of your own home?

Also what style of music will be featured on the “world most advanced sampling DJ mixer” just out of interest?

Ashley_K

robert_philp · Post by **robert_philp** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:04 pm

Ashley,

I like to mix Drum and Bass, Breaks, bit of house, just whatever really. I'm no turntablist its CD all the way i'm afraid.

I do have a load of diskspace i can use, i recently bought a 200GB drive for £70, just for MP3, samples etc. Not very full at all, so i can try the all-software approach.

I still like the idea of feeding each CD deck output into a multi-in soundcard, straight thru live and then i can do all monitoring, mixing etc in live, and also sample the records and set up loops at the same time. Might take some practise mind.

All this is only for my own benefit, i don't DJ in public. Done a few house parties for a laugh, but if i got this set-up going people would see what can really be done

ashley_k · Post by **ashley_k** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:14 pm

Robert,

I think you should still give the CD decks a try through Live, I suppose it all depends on how good a mixer your are, unfortunately DJ mixing is another thing I have failed to master, as I sit beside my now little used pair of Technics SL1210 decks.
I think it is your duty to try and perfect the ”world most advanced sampling DJ mixer” the people of this country must be freed from the shackles of bog standard DJ mixing!

Why not give the all-software approach a go as well.

I like a bit of Drum and Bass myself (nothing too hard though, prefer the more jazzy Good Looking variety), I like nearly every type of music, and it would be easier to list the ones I don’t like!

It will be interesting to find out which one of the two methods works best for you.

Ashley_K

The name's Dr. Quin Medicine Woman, but you can call me...erm...Dr. Quin