A big shock

[georgelindsay]

I just went through a load of old songs I'd made on my PC using Reason 3 about 3 years ago- thinking this should be funny and hopefully a real eye opener to see how much I'd developed in that time only to find that the songs sounded far louder, bigger and seemingly better produced!

Please let me explain that at the time when I used to make these 'songs' (more like mess arounds with all the built in synths/samplers and drum machines etc) I didn't ever tweak eq or compression I usually slapped a combinator on an instrument and hoped it would sound good. Then I'd just make sure the levels between the instruments were all relatively ok, do some panning and that would be it! I'd usually crank up the master a bit and bounce.

Fast forward to now and I'm using Ableton live on a mac, I've got hold of a load of Waves plugins and various others from a friend, I like to think that I'm making better music and better sounding music. I pay attention to what my compressors and Eq's are doing and really take my time over everything.... I usually use an L2 limiter/L3 MultiMaximizer on the Master channel so I don't think I need to do any more limiting or compression- I don't want to kill the track but there is a definite loudness and fullness from my old productions on Reason that I'm just not getting with Live.

I don't want to start another of those 'Live audio engine is rubbish' threads but I'm having a real crisis of confidence here! I have Logic as well but don't use it for the sort of stuff that I do with Ableton, does anyone recommend trying to mix in Logic for better results or just rewiring the whole time? It doesn't seem like it would be as easy going and spontaneous to me?
I get on really well with Ableton so this is quite disappointing to discover.

[ErnstEiswürfel]

I've got hold of a load of Waves plugins and various others from a friend

always great to have software salesmen as friends, innit?

about the sound quality - it makes absolutely no difference if you bounce your track in logic or live. i did null tests on that.
it must be something in your new way of working? in fact you can lose alot of "richness" by applying too much EQ & compression, or any other kind of processing. also there are alot of pro plugins you should stay away from if you don't know exactly how to use them.
simple is good! i think it's most important to focus on the sound quality of your synths & samples (never tried reason but maybe it's good at making things round & complete to a certain degree).

[georgelindsay]

Hey, Thanks for your reply. I totally understand what your saying and in fact I probably would have been more likely to slap a 'pro plugin' on just about anything back in the day if I had them at my disposal... I'm careful now that I use my ears and don't just apply compression/effects that aren't required to everything.

So that brings my on to the second part of your reply..... the sound quality of synths and samples

Please let me explain how I've generally been working in my current projects and see what you think? I've basically been using samples from say, the start of a song where there's an isolated pad/string part/guitar part which I can grab and turn into a pad or something, putting it in a drum rack, sometimes detuning it or tuning it up. Then I might record in a synth part from my micro korg or a bass line. I've recorded loads of claps/one shots which I'll use as percussive elements along with some good quality drum samples (like the 909 tape pack)

I make sure the song is at least 320kbs mp3 or I won't use it. I've got all the basic ableton stuff configured to 'hi q'. I'm running my interface (focusrite pro 26) at 4800 sample rate. I've also tried all the possible bounce options!

[NF]

Hi,
it seems that you do your think right. when you make music try to separate your work in "creative part" and "technical part".
So you can concentrate primaly on your song, build arrangement, make new synths, rough mix it.
when you say that the song has a message and is nice for a first bounce(only limiter at master) try to overlook if you have done big technical mistaces. correct them.
make a rough mix without L3 or similar maximizer/multiband- or sum-compressor. you will hear your mistakes a bit more naturally then with a maximizer.
imagine that a maximizer or compressor works nonlinear. so a gain in a bass kick has not the same ratio in the whole song then with a maximizer/multiband- or sum-compressor on the sum.
after all when the instruments are right in your way then you can do a perfect arrangement and mix,maybe finetune the master FX.
at least it depens on the style you want. so you have to use the FX on every channel to get it. or you want to make your own style/music. then nothing is prohibited.

every song is tuned step by step. the experience will make the process faster. You will also see that own synths can make a song much more interesting and unique

my suggestions are only one and maybe not the perfect way how to produce. but I think it´s a good addition to get new ideas from somwhere else.