sending stems through preamps

[teshno]

John Selway revealed in his Ibiza Voice interview http://www.ibiza-voice.com/story/news/2327 that....

Can you reveal a secret about your production technique/s?
It's not really a big secret but after I'm done with the arrangement of a track and the mix levels are generally close to where I want them, I like to render stems and then re-record them through high quality analogue preamps and then do one more final mix adjustment. The release I did recently with Tony Rohr for CSM was mixed like that, we ran everything through an API 3124 and the sound is monstrous, it jumps right out of the speakers.


Has anyone tried this technique? I've read about running soft synths through preamps but this interview was the only time I've read anything about sending finished, rendered stems through preamps for more flavor. I'm curious because it seems that you can't run stems straight out of your DA straight into an XLR right? Unless you really pull down the gain before hitting the pre.

Unless he's talking about actually recording the audio from his monitors?

[3phase]

you dont have to run all signals at maximum level.. on an analo console you have ar least 18 db head room.. and better pre can handle nominal levels .. maybe reduce 10 db.. so you are -30 and bring this up with the pream again...

or if your DA´s can be set to -10 db output you are just fine..

[transology]

I'll definitly try this for my next bunch of track. Renting 8 pre for a day, with lynx convertors. I' really curious about the result

[teshno]

you dont have to run all signals at maximum level.. on an analo console you have ar least 18 db head room.. and better pre can handle nominal levels .. maybe reduce 10 db.. so you are -30 and bring this up with the pream again...

or if your DA´s can be set to -10 db output you are just fine..

I don't have a board but I set all tracks in Live to -18 RMS before mixing. I do have options on my DA to set output levels to -10 dBV if necessary. It just seems that is even too loud. Pres are obviously designed to be used with mics which is why they have 50-70db of possible gain. I'm not interested in just running stems through my card's pres, which are super clean. I want something like Neve or API clones with that transformer mojo. I've been researching some DIY kits like JLM, Seventh Circle and Five Fish and it seems these pres really shine when you push the input hard into the transformer circuit and then pull down the output accordingly. I'm just curious of the "right" way to do this before I go spending $1000 on a kit somewhere.

I'll definitly try this for my next bunch of track. Renting 8 pre for a day, with lynx convertors. I' really curious about the result

What kind of pres are you renting?

[3phase]

I don't have a board but I set all tracks in Live to -18 RMS before mixing. I do have options on my DA to set output levels to -10 dBV if necessary. It just seems that is even too loud. Pres are obviously designed to be used with mics which is why they have 50-70db of possible gain. I'm not interested in just running stems through my card's pres, which are super clean. I want something like Neve or API clones with that transformer mojo. I've been researching some DIY kits like JLM, Seventh Circle and Five Fish and it seems these pres really shine when you push the input hard into the transformer circuit and then pull down the output accordingly. I'm just curious of the "right" way to do this before I go spending $1000 on a kit somewhere.

it does seem to loud? what is it doing to make it seem to you too loud? cant you guys not just stick to your plug ins?

[3phase]

besides.. ever heard about a pad?

[timothyallan]

I do that as well with stems. Not only stems though, I'll run various things through at various points.

[muthafunka]

Suggest using a preamp that takes line level signal ie instrument in etc. Sending a line level signal through a mic stage is not recommended afaik unless you specifically mean to do so. Funnily enough just saw a thread about this at GS http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end- ... c-wow.html

[3phase]

Suggest using a preamp that takes line level signal ie instrument in etc. Sending a line level signal through a mic stage is not recommended afaik unless you specifically mean to do so. Funnily enough just saw a thread about this at GS http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end- ... c-wow.html

depends on the preamp... things like a neve 1080, or clones, are actually channelstrips with extra line inputs..

of cause you dont use the mic inputs except as an effect and you should have a pad before them.. thats just resitors in an H configuration to reduce level and to do some rough impedance matching.. if that makes your sound really better than using the lineinput or just having a linelevel preamp is questionable.. some say so ..others say so..
in any case mic amps are much more expensive than line amps.

Besides without a pad .you actually can blow some mic pres.. blow the tranformator itself, when you have a beefy desk....or having something like a neuman V476... which is like a racing horse.. you give it +28 db.. and the transistors inside will amplify that by 80 db in the max in no time.. a little while..beng.. gone
so not any mic pre can handle dumbos.. especially the equipment designed for classical music recording is not so forgiving on overloads than 1960 US broadcast gear

[leedsquietman]

It's more common to send stems out through a summing mixer like a Neve 8816 or through something like a Toft ATB8 or TL Audio Fat Track or M8 etc.

My friend uses DAW out through his RME FF800 into an API summing chain and then dumps it into an Otari 1/2" reel to reel tape with Dolby SR for some real nice analogue saturation and tape compression and then back into the box with a Mytek converter and the results can be real nice.

Of course this gear costs a lot of money and doesn't always give fantastic results like you might believe it would.

[teshno]

I do that as well with stems. Not only stems though, I'll run various things through at various points.

Can you explain your gain staging with stems? How hot are you coming out of your DA? Are you running line level into your pre? Or making some gain changes and then hitting via XLR into the pre? Can you explain what gear you're using?

It's more common to send stems out through a summing mixer like a Neve 8816 or through something like a Toft ATB8 or TL Audio Fat Track or M8 etc.

My friend uses DAW out through his RME FF800 into an API summing chain and then dumps it into an Otari 1/2" reel to reel tape with Dolby SR for some real nice analogue saturation and tape compression and then back into the box with a Mytek converter and the results can be real nice.

Of course this gear costs a lot of money and doesn't always give fantastic results like you might believe it would.

In Selway's interview he doesn't mention anything about running the stems through a mixer, although he certainly could be doing that. The API 3124 does have the Hi-Z inputs on the face which makes sense with running line level straight out of the DA. The API is too much money for me and I don't have a lunchbox to try a 512, for example. I'm more interested in kits like Seventh Circle (but they don't have line inputs) or JLM (which does have line ins). I really like the modularity of these systems.

So there is conflicting, or shall we say colorful, discussion surrounding whether it's better to hit 1/4" or XLR when using preamps for color. Arguments for both camps. So your friend runs straight from the FF800 (I have FF400) and into the hi-z on his API?

[3phase]

So there is conflicting, or shall we say colorful, discussion surrounding whether it's better to hit 1/4" or XLR when using preamps for color. Arguments for both camps. So your friend runs straight from the FF800 (I have FF400) and into the hi-z on his API?

could you people please leave soundengineering to sound engineers?..but ok.. there must be somebody that buys the monster cable..

[teshno]

Do you enjoy being a dick or is that just an uncontrollable byproduct of your nature?