Live is not truly an instrument yet. Need softsynth/samplers

[bcslaam]

Seems like Ableton thinks their only market is DJs.
The fact is, there is presently the begining of a HUGE shift from hardware syths. samplers and sequencers to pc/mac ONSTAGE setups for MUSICIANS. Yes, people who play keyboards like Herbie Handcock.
Many people in the Logic forum for instance are really battling to use Logic as a live instrument with VSTi and DXi but it can only play one instrument at a time live. It isn't structured multitimbrally.
GAURANTEED to turn MANY heads if Ableton addresses the player who likes to play multiple softsynths and samplers on different channels coming from a zoned midi keyboard whilst pumping in midi from an electronic drum kit to play oneshot multilayered samples, and also to have the possability to play say an audio backing track that has been analysed to sync up a tempo in Live to still be able to drop loops over it AND to be able to run MIDI sequences that will either output to midi output for program changes to any outboard gear and other external synth lines. So this means one long MIDI sequence alongside the audio backing track or little midi sequences to be loaded like any other loop. Then in this case they can play another tracks VSTi, DXi or AUi.

Until Ableton realise there is a huge market to cover here then Live will be just a DJ/beat mysters toy.

The day they announce VSTi, DXi, AUi compatability in a multitimbral way I am there with my money buying it and telling everyone on all my lists about it aswell.
PS:Also dont forget video clip output in sync for those who like to have images running for onstage directions/lyrics or for the audience..

[php]

My interests are more towards ambient, space music and experimental music. I'm not a DJ, and yet I find Live very useful for what I do. Even though you can't currently use VSTi or AU instruments in Live, you can ReWire it to Reason 2 which is great for realtime playing. I agree, though, that the sooner Ableton makes Live VSTi and AU compatible, the sooner it will be seen as a viable alternative to Logic or Cubase SX as a softsynth host.

[jaypaulprint]

I use Cubase Vst synths to generate my waves which I then drop into Live. But I hate having to always find ways to clean up the loop mark. VST synth in ableton would cure that. I would never have to use Cubase again unless i'm recording real sound. It's good to know there are other musicians out there (as opposed to DJs) who are looking forward to using Live as a total instrument!

[Mbazzy]

Think it should be possible to do that using Plogue Bidule as your Rewire master, slaving Live and playing your softsynths etc in Plogue Bidule ... once Bidule can be slaved (next version?), you could work the other way around ...

[Guest]

You guys shouldn't think that there's always such a clear line separating DJs and "musicians." I happen to be a DJ who has been playing drums for 27 years, making electronic music for 8 years and also dabble in other instruments, including the turntable itself with scratching. The line is pretty blurry these days with a lot of folks. I don't think you have to play something made out of wood to be considered a "musician."
Also, why do people keep calling Live a "'toy?" It must be because it's so damn fun to play.

[Link]

I also wonder if it's based on differnt ideas of what "live" means. Some people call pre-sequencing whole sequences and triggering them off from a button "live", whereas others aren't comfortable with this idea, feeling it like playing against a karaoke machine, and aren't content unless everything was made up on the spot and THEN maybe triggering\looping it.

I also wonder if many people, going by some posts, have any idea of the difference between playing "live" and arranging things at leisure at home. I've seen some people "play" major parts of their sets via a sequencer where they may as well have put it into a wav file and in some cases the whole lot onto a minidisk!

I'm for the VSTi idea personally, but no MIDI doesn't bother me (apart from being able to trigger them) as recording the results "live" into clips and then triggering those would be more in the ballpark here. Allowing for happy accidents and some edge to the creation of a live set, as opposed to having everything in clips or MIDI sequences and then pressing a button.

I guess I'm in trouble now?

[os]

I've forced myself to use nothing but Live for gigs for a while now, as an experiment to see how it would work out. Simply triggering samples & loops didn't cut it at all for me - just not enough creative potential. What I've been doing recently is playing live the only things in Live that you can get really creative with - the effects plugins. I trigger samples, feed them into complex delay/effect loops, play with the parameters, resample it (within Live, while performing) and manipulate the new samples in the same way.
But for all this, I'm really itching to get back to playing notes on intruments as part of my set. Playing softsynths in a separate host app isn't the solution - I need to be able to play a piano part (or whatever) and be able to treat/record/mash it in the same way I can deal with any other audio, all in the same interface.
Then I'll have a complete but minimal set-up for total live creativity.
Roll on Live v2!
Cheers,
os.

[bcslaam]

You are right in saying the line is blurred between DJ and musicain. I apolagise for my gorilla tactics. But this is exactly why softsythns are needed.

Yes it would be possible to rewire to other hosts etc but what of the CPU and hardware usage of rewire and of duplicated services between programs as well as the pitfalls of virtual midi hubs and the cross compatability between different platforms... list goes on.

The fact is no-one has really fully addressed a true comprehensive live computer instrument. It would be ground breaking and instantly catch the attention of the high end performance market.

Ableton in some ways are the closest with priorities like stability and cross platform. Live inputs. The interface is great except it needs a channel strip zoom in/out to see more channels.

Please Ableton tell the forum on your plans for softsynths and MIDI. I am poised with my money...but not for ever.

PS: To have a full screen bright circular metronome with bar count and comments against black to be put on a second screen or output to composite video would be nice.
And a midi processor like the Yamaha MEP4.
A way of playing master tracks of audio, MIDI and DMX (yes the lighting protocol so that lightshows sequenced in Showcad can be synced. Now this is getting comprehensive. I think swaying the pro community will bring the lighter users. It would be a knockout!

Peace to all

[Guest]

I think no one has addressed it because of the need to walk to before trying to run. Trying to make a 1.x release with all the features you're asking for would have delayed the release of Live for quite some time, and probably would have added significantly to the number of bugs.

I would love to have most of the features you have mention, but if any one of them runs a significant risk of decreasing the reliability of Live in live performance, I'd rather not have it.

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