Synths reborn

[Tarekith]

http://tarekith.com/synths-reborn/

[jtdj]

christ what a moaning cunt! get on with it!

[glitchrock-buddha]

While the Kore tagging system is a decent thing for a huge preset library, I think you missed the best thing about it, which is the morph square, allowing morphing between multiple presets, something Alchemy took on in a similar way (though Kore is better because it allows multiple macro pages which in turn lets the sound variations be much more different than what 8 macros can achieve).

I think the Omni TR is great and I'd like to see more controllers like it. I recently purchased the Korg iMS-20 and was really surprised by how fun and useful the whole thing is. Korg kaoss pads integrated into the synth and multiple synth parts for drums. Very fun. Just one question - Why did they make this 30 dollar ipad app so cool and they couldn't update their MS-20 VST plug-in to have some cool tricks like this? I'd like some of this coolness to be integrated into a version of the synth in my DAW. I still don't really know how to use my ipad synths in projects properly.

I think the ableton ipad apps have some potential for the instrument interfaces as well. Look at the custom EQ8 interface for touchable. I'd like to see operator get an ipad interface in the same way. And all the other ableton synths too.

[littlepig]

An interesting article but I disagree with you about Lives interface. I love it, it is so refreshing after all the psuedo-transparent, psuedo-3d effects found in almost all software these days. So far as I am concerted all these graphic effects are making software less usable for me.

And don't get me started on graduated fills...

[ollyb303]

Nice article Tarekith, though I'm not sure agree entirely.

I'm in agreement with littlepig about Live's interface and this is generally how I like software - purely functional, no gloss.

I do like Synplant in theory - I've played with the demo and it's very exciting making sounds in an entirely new way, but I actually found it to be a bit too unpredictable for my needs in practice (probably didn't spend enough time to do it justice TBH).

I think you're right that there are too many vintage analogue clones around and I'd love to see some more innovative software given the capabilities of modern hardware and the sophistication of modern programming, I'm just not sure I'd want to be stacking pebbles to control it - give me a nice slider any day of the week!

[8O]

I highly recommend a new interface to control your synths...

/blatantspam

[beats me]

I’m so tired of Live’s bland GUI after 4 versions (I’ve used) of the same that I’m going to start using Logic to feel a little more inspired by what I’m looking at and I don’t care if it’s overly complicated. It will also be nice to use a DAW that doesn’t crash or freeze on more than 10 tracks of third party plugs. Hallelujah!

[Tarekith]

I think my biggest issue with Live's synths, is that so many of the controls are located in that center black area. Makes them very small and hard to see, and even more difficult to manipulate. I don't have anything against the simple look of the knobs per se, but they really need to break those synths out into bigger panels, and stop forcing them into the smaller clip view area. Similar to how the zones are done with Sampler for instance.

[Saxer]

good thread!

so many controls of synths are in furthest corners. operator is a good no-go example: working in a mini-mini corner of the screen with the smallest avaliable font size. the interesting part of the synth is small, ugly and black. when i work on something, i want it in center, big and if possible full screen.

example plugin: if i choose a plugin, i don´t do something else and i don´t need to see something else. so why do i have to scroll and open and close folders? why is there no "plugin-choose" button and a list of ALL plugins i have is filling the screen? i would remember: absynth is somewhere up left, klick on it (or choose it by a number below) and have it in two seconds.

i love the u-he plugins for the resize ability: rightclick and switch to big. i always choose the biggest size that fits on my screen. so it really looks like a synth instead of a postcard of it.

in kontakt i choose the big font and a screen filling plugin-size as well.

the browser of omnisphere is nearly good: it fills the plugin-window completely. but why not the whole screen?

i never want to scroll anymore until the whole screen space sets borders. please: no more scrolling in windows in windows in little windows!

there´s still a lot to do...

[Forge.]

some good points, I agree with a lot of it. In fact some of your suggestions near the end sound very similar to an idea I had for a while for a "synaesthetic" music making program. It's heading into multimedia art territory there though.

I agree about the black space with Ableton synths - mainly on Analog I have a problem with it

I've been growing increasingly frustrated with Live's all in one interface lately - it can make it very awkward for some editing tasks - like having to stretch the clip view up and down to see the arranger..... I guess it's more of a PITA because I'm on a 13" macbook and can't be arsed using an external monitor, but sometimes trying to work in the arranger when the returns are visible and automation is showing can be a nightmare....

But I'm really on the fence about the iTouch revolution... I don't own an iPad so maybe I can't comment, but I have a secret nagging suspicion that it just isn't ever going to hold a candle to real knobs and faders and keys you can physically grab and turn in the heat of the moment. I actually think I would find trying to do it all virtually really frustrating. I've never really used a lemur either though, maybe if I had I'd feel differently, but I've had a brief go on one and that is exactly what I felt - just not the same as real knobs etc...

And I guess all of this in answer to your post is that I think we still have a way to go in finding the ideal environment for music making. I think it will definitely involve real hardware with real knobs, but more work is needed on getting the ideal balance where you can get away from the mouse but still act out all your ideas.

Actually I think Live holds the best hope here because others are still very firmly locked into that old mindset of mouse, note editor, MIDI keyboard.... there are only a few things we really need added to Live to make a huge jump towards avoiding the mouse.... for example, MIDI mapping in the browser so you can navigate properly without a mouse. I know people have done versions of this with 3rd party apps, but I think Ableton could do with a real rethink of the browser and how it can be better utilised in a Live situation. I think the 'hotswap' system was almost a step backwards here because the easiest way to use it is with a mouse.

I still feel quite disappointed actually the Ableton went so hard after the DAW market competing head to head with all the others, when I thought they had gouged out their own pathway with a whole new concept at the start with the "sequencer instrument" idea.... potentially completely dominating the Live market. Now we have a situation where Traktor etc offer many more options for adding samples to DJ sets than they used to, reducing the advantage of Live there, and then we have Maschine which seems to have really turned a lot of heads by making a hardware version of Live that allows 'session automation' and does it all mouse free. I think Ableton needs to really refocus on this "Live" element in future versions or they're going to lose their advantage in many ways.

Saying that I was just today commenting to a student how much I still prefer working in Live by a long way just because of how quick and easy I find it to work in. But it was in that same session where I was feeling the frustration of the interface.

We were also talking about Reason and that is one program that really proves Tarekith's point about interfaces - Reason is really falling behind there because their interface is so small and fiddly and irritating. And their sequencer has a lot of really irritating things about it too, even after the changes in 4 and 5.

[luddy]

There's lots of taste and subjectivity in regards to interfaces. Between Live's interfaces to its instruments and Logic's, for example, I'll take Live's any day. I can't stand the interface to Ultrabeat or Sculpture for example. I feel the same way about NI's interfaces, I dread using them. I'm surprised I ended up liking the small interfaces to Operator, Sampler, etc., but in fact I find them very easy to use. The fact that undo works on them (reliably) helps a lot. But I think the main thing is that Live's instruments in fact have a small number of well-conceived controls, just essential stuff without gratuitous bells and whistles, and that allows them to pack a lot of functionality into a small space. I'm sold.

-Luddy

[Rabalder]

christ Im a moaning cunt! better get on with it!

[Tarekith]

But I'm really on the fence about the iTouch revolution... I don't own an iPad so maybe I can't comment, but I have a secret nagging suspicion that it just isn't ever going to hold a candle to real knobs and faders and keys you can physically grab and turn in the heat of the moment. I actually think I would find trying to do it all virtually really frustrating. I've never really used a lemur either though, maybe if I had I'd feel differently, but I've had a brief go on one and that is exactly what I felt - just not the same as real knobs etc...
.

FWIW I feel the same way, I don't prefer a touchscreen over real knobs and faders. But in Omni's case, i think they did a good job of using the touchscreen in a way that makes sense for that hardware. I have a whole other rant about using virtual knobs on touchscreens.

[Khazul]

I think my biggest issue with Live's synths, is that so many of the controls are located in that center black area. Makes them very small and hard to see, and even more difficult to manipulate. I don't have anything against the simple look of the knobs per se, but they really need to break those synths out into bigger panels, and stop forcing them into the smaller clip view area. Similar to how the zones are done with Sampler for instance.

Like Ive allways said - like doing keyhole surgery with a mouse

I still feel quite disappointed actually the Ableton went so hard after the DAW market competing head to head with all the others, when I thought they had gouged out their own pathway with a whole new concept at the start with the "sequencer instrument" idea.... potentially completely dominating the Live market. Now we have a situation where Traktor etc offer many more options for adding samples to DJ sets than they used to, reducing the advantage of Live there, and then we have Maschine which seems to have really turned a lot of heads by making a hardware version of Live that allows 'session automation' and does it all mouse free. I think Ableton needs to really refocus on this "Live" element in future versions or they're going to lose their advantage in many ways.

Yes and no.

Yes - its what they were good at - but with crrent reliability I have to question that - Traktor + Maschine is looking like a more viable performance rig to me, especially if you need to integrate with some kind of regular style DJing.

On the have-to-be-a-DAW point - People seem to like tools that can do everything, or tools that are very well inttegrated. Tools that can do part of the job, but where the workflow gets horrible compromised when integrating with something else tend to just get annoying and bypassed. Reason, rewire being a good example of something that was only ever partially done (midi in, audio out only, not in both directions), and workflow that wasnt that great in the end. Same with Live + rewire - it pretty horrible with the plugin limitations it imposes to the point of useless.

OTOH, If we had excellent virtual audio and midi between applications, a better master/slave sync story, near perfect interchange fo file formats between DAWs (ie move the complete project from live to logic or cubase), then we might well be using Live as a skteching and perfromance tool, logic and cubase as our DAWs (as examples), Reason in there as well as a collection of synths and processors. But they dont play nicely with each other, so we dont - too much of a pain, except when migration is done at certain points.

The real problem is that the companies wont play nicely with each other - never mind their products. How often to WE end up being piggy in the middle between the support depts of companies based in germany? (Access, NI, Ableton, Setinberg, RME) when if they would play nice and talk to eahc other - it wouldnt be so much of a pain in the ass for us? How the how can we ever expectt them to et together and make stuff really work well for user by actually designing together, creating standards etc?

Steinberg and Prellerheads have done alot fr us, but nowhere near enough. Needs another very strong player to push things to the next stage before it all continue to fragment even more. Kore is a good idea. On a certain hardware beta programme myself and Tarekith were in we had conversations about such a scheme a long time ago, but aimed at the product we were testing. Kore is good for NI and Alchemy, but for it to be really god - other need to get on board as well as support it. But the reality - most just want to do their own thing and never commit to helping someone else.

Like herding kittens really. In other industries there are standards bodies - music software is getting to the level of maturity and size were there is now a place where it needs an ECMA/W3C equivalent - for the actual software, not just the hardware. This is the reason we are still using 31.25Kbit midi and not something much better over 1GB ethernet for example!

[LoopStationZebra]

Regarding touchscreen:

Well, you chaps know me: iPad all the way. I dumped all my other controllers; mostly because for live looping the less shit I have to bring with me the better. I find nothing frustrating at all about controlling every aspect of live via touchAble, Konkreet Performer, and various other apps. It's as precise as I need it to be.

The other aspect that needs to be considered is the AWESOME power that comes with controlling a buttload of parameters at the same time via multitouch. Until you've used something like Performer, you truly have no idea what it's like - the fluid craziness of sound that you absolutely cannot get with 2 hands and knobs.

It's apps like Performer and the Omnisphere companion that are really going to push the touchscreen doubters into rethinking the place that touchscreen has. Not as a replacement for the beloved knobs and faders, but as a whole new level of control that you've never had before.