Hello. I'd like to start a discussion about how you are setting up your Live sets. I am currently performing live music and sound effects for a theatre production, using Reason. Reason works well for a single song, but is problematic for long sets. When I need to play sound effects, or get another composition ready, I have to open a new Reason file. This is not a problem for what I am doing, but I would like to play long sets of uninterruped music.
I am interested in improvisation as well as preparation. I've only had Live for a week, and am just beginning to understand the possibilites it offers. My goal is to show up to the gig with my laptop, an audio interface, headphones, and a mouse -- then rock the house for an hour or two. I have a few specific questions:
1. Is you general approach to create long phrases (e.g. 64 bars of drums, bass, and an acid line), or clip-based (e.g. 1 to 8 bar phrases of individual instruments, such as the kick track, snare track, and hi hat track)? Do you have several long phrases, and many short ones to drop in and out of the mix?
2. Is your general approach DJ-oriented (i.e. mixing complete tracks as described in the tutorial found on this site.)? How much of your set is original material (original being defined as items which are not complete tracks by other artists)? Do you mix complete tracks and clips?
3. How much improvisation do you do onstage? Is the set preplanned, and then you tweak parameters and add nuance as you go? Do you have nothing but a few Scenes ready to go, and you fly by the seat of your pants? Something in between? Crafting good builds seems like a difficult task to perform on the fly.
4. Do you use ReWire for other apps (Reason, ReBirth, MAX/MSP)? If so, what role are these applications performing?
5. Do you use a MIDI controller? If so, what kind? How is it mapped (e.g. an Oxygen 8 could have its 8 knobs mapped to track volumes, the data entry slider to master volume, and the piano keys to clips)?
6. Do you map keyboard keys to Live functions (e.g. digits 1-8 mapped to track mutes)?
7. Do you prelisten with multi-output software?
8. Do you perform sitting down or standing? If standing, what do you put your computer on?
I have more questions, but these are probably a good start. Live seems to offer what I have been looking for in music performance software, and I'd like to become a power user as soon as possible.
Thank you!
/Scott
Live Set Preparation
-
dirtystudios
- Posts: 1196
- Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:28 am
- i tend to lean toward shorter clips for percussion. if i have some flowy synth clip, i'll make it longer to avoid cliping the loop point as much as possible. when it comes to parts, i try to cram as many parts as i can together (while still maintaining reasonable flexability when inprovising) so as to save cpu cycles. if i had a faster tibook, this wouldn't really be as big an issue.1. Is you general approach to create long phrases (e.g. 64 bars of drums, bass, and an acid line), or clip-based (e.g. 1 to 8 bar phrases of individual instruments, such as the kick track, snare track, and hi hat track)? Do you have several long phrases, and many short ones to drop in and out of the mix?
- i use all original material. however, i'm starting to see the possibilities that live offers in terms of dj'ing. with decks you tend to be limited to just two tracks at any given time, but with live, you can take a beat from this song, a bassline from that song, a synth riff from another song, vocals from another, a movie sample or two and maybe a theme from an old school tv show and string it all together. sort of taking dj'ing to the next level. so i'm starting to collect little bits and peices of songs here and there, see if i can't get something going.2. Is your general approach DJ-oriented (i.e. mixing complete tracks as described in the tutorial found on this site.)? How much of your set is original material (original being defined as items which are not complete tracks by other artists)? Do you mix complete tracks and clips?
- it depends on what type of show i'm doing. but what usually happens is i plan a whole buncha stuff, then when the time comes i ignore all the planning i did and just wing it, but all the planning does give me a solid knowledge of the material i'm working with. i dunno...it usually works out.3. How much improvisation do you do onstage? Is the set preplanned, and then you tweak parameters and add nuance as you go? Do you have nothing but a few Scenes ready to go, and you fly by the seat of your pants? Something in between? Crafting good builds seems like a difficult task to perform on the fly.
i've tried using rewire with several max/msp apps, and i've never gotten them to work. i'm not sure if i actually need max/msp installed on my computer for live to recognize the inputs or what. i used reason for a spell, and i may use it again, but rewire doesn't really come into play for me right now. though in the future, i believe it will come in super handy.4. Do you use ReWire for other apps (Reason, ReBirth, MAX/MSP)? If so, what role are these applications performing?
- i use an oxygen and yes i map the keys. usually, i use the white keys for clips and scenes, and the black ones for mutes, fx buttons and whatnot. the knobs get mapped to various fx parameters for tweaking. i don't usually assing controllers for the volume faders, but if i had more physical knobs and sliders, i prolly would.5. Do you use a MIDI controller? If so, what kind? How is it mapped (e.g. an Oxygen 8 could have its 8 knobs mapped to track volumes, the data entry slider to master volume, and the piano keys to clips)?
- see above.6. Do you map keyboard keys to Live functions (e.g. digits 1-8 mapped to track mutes)?
- i use a tascam us-224, which doesn't support prelistening, but i'm saving up for one of them snazzy rme multifaces.7. Do you prelisten with multi-output software?
- standing usually. the image of a guy playing his computer onstage is shady enough without having the guy sitting. "well...he may actually just be playing quake while his mp3 player spits out the music, but at least he has the courtesy to stand while he's doing it."8. Do you perform sitting down or standing? If standing, what do you put your computer on?
k
-
Guest
-
Guest
-
logos
1 -
i used to split everything up to very small 4/8bar block.
the longer i work with live i tend to zoom everything to larger blocks as i think this is a way to bring variation to your set, as there are crossings of sounds you could not plan. it's not that linear as those little 4/4 bars - using long phrases and putting them together brings back the random faktor, which is difficult to get at all in live.
2 -
original material only. digital dj's may use traktor for their purposes ... it's a lot better for this in my opinion
3 -
usually (the 3times i played live yet onstage) i arrange 8clips fitting to a scene and have up to 30scenes for a show, to maintain consistency in sound i try not to use too many different sounds. the tracks are ordered by the instruments. --> live everything goes different than i expected before always.
4 -
i dont use rewire as i am not satisfied with the soundquality of reason etc at all.
5 -
i use the oxygen . i don't really love it but it does the job.
i mainly use the knobs for volumes and sends, and the keys for clips of course. i miss a function in live to transport the set midi keys from scene to scene. right now you can trigger up to 30 files and not more. also the handling of the ox to change parameteres could be better ,,
6 -
yes dito (qwertz to mute, 1-8 does not work)
and the stop clips funktion
7 -
i coul'd but i don't i know my music
8 -
standing of course how should i dance and move while i am sitting????
i also use to stand in the studio a lot , ..
hey man! you say you are not a live user? these questions are pretty concrete
i used to split everything up to very small 4/8bar block.
the longer i work with live i tend to zoom everything to larger blocks as i think this is a way to bring variation to your set, as there are crossings of sounds you could not plan. it's not that linear as those little 4/4 bars - using long phrases and putting them together brings back the random faktor, which is difficult to get at all in live.
2 -
original material only. digital dj's may use traktor for their purposes ... it's a lot better for this in my opinion
3 -
usually (the 3times i played live yet onstage) i arrange 8clips fitting to a scene and have up to 30scenes for a show, to maintain consistency in sound i try not to use too many different sounds. the tracks are ordered by the instruments. --> live everything goes different than i expected before always.
4 -
i dont use rewire as i am not satisfied with the soundquality of reason etc at all.
5 -
i use the oxygen . i don't really love it but it does the job.
i mainly use the knobs for volumes and sends, and the keys for clips of course. i miss a function in live to transport the set midi keys from scene to scene. right now you can trigger up to 30 files and not more. also the handling of the ox to change parameteres could be better ,,
6 -
yes dito (qwertz to mute, 1-8 does not work)
and the stop clips funktion
7 -
i coul'd but i don't i know my music
8 -
standing of course how should i dance and move while i am sitting????
i also use to stand in the studio a lot , ..
hey man! you say you are not a live user? these questions are pretty concrete
Logos -
Thank you for the reply. I like the notion of putting together larger blocks as scenes. I was thinking of dealing in 64-bar blocks, and having 8 of them per scene. Perhaps the track 8 block of scene 1 could be the track 1 block of scene 2. That way, I could transition seamlessly between scenes. Then again, with the crossfader in Live 2, maybe this won't be necessary.
Regarding the sound quality of Reason, I've found that individually, the instruments can be a bit thin. When you start layering them, however, the sounds get a lot better. Now that I have Live, I don't use the fx in Reason, since Live's effects are top-notch. Plus there is the whole VST effect world to get into.
I am saving up for Absynth, as I think that is a synth that will keep the sound designer in me happy for a long time. I plan to export loops and samples out of Absynth, perhaps make loops out them in Reason, and them import them into Live.
Regarding standing up while playing, do you trust that the venue will have something of the right height for you to put your equipment on, or do you have something of your own?
/S
Thank you for the reply. I like the notion of putting together larger blocks as scenes. I was thinking of dealing in 64-bar blocks, and having 8 of them per scene. Perhaps the track 8 block of scene 1 could be the track 1 block of scene 2. That way, I could transition seamlessly between scenes. Then again, with the crossfader in Live 2, maybe this won't be necessary.
Regarding the sound quality of Reason, I've found that individually, the instruments can be a bit thin. When you start layering them, however, the sounds get a lot better. Now that I have Live, I don't use the fx in Reason, since Live's effects are top-notch. Plus there is the whole VST effect world to get into.
I am saving up for Absynth, as I think that is a synth that will keep the sound designer in me happy for a long time. I plan to export loops and samples out of Absynth, perhaps make loops out them in Reason, and them import them into Live.
Regarding standing up while playing, do you trust that the venue will have something of the right height for you to put your equipment on, or do you have something of your own?
/S
-
logos
hehe,,, der glöckner von notredam...
no but most of the times a dj is playing before and after, and i put the technics case cover on the turntable and got the perfect height... (even highter than the dj, ), also i put a ambient record on the remaining technics for the case that i run into trouble, which i happily did not really yet, but you never know...
about the transitions, i take care that the underlying scenes are similar how they feel in harmonics so i can improvise like this.
no but most of the times a dj is playing before and after, and i put the technics case cover on the turntable and got the perfect height... (even highter than the dj, ), also i put a ambient record on the remaining technics for the case that i run into trouble, which i happily did not really yet, but you never know...
about the transitions, i take care that the underlying scenes are similar how they feel in harmonics so i can improvise like this.
What platform are you running? I have a 700 mHz iBook running MacOS 9.2.2 which seems stable and powerful enough. I had a Gateway 1.6 mHz machine, but every audio device I hooked up to it made a terrible ground hum. I sent it to Gateway, and they said nothing was wrong with the machine, but courteously formatted the hdd and put Win2k (unpatched) on it. So I sold the machine to a friend in the office and bought the iBook.
Anyone, I've been drinking coffee.
/S
Anyone, I've been drinking coffee.
/S
1/ Depends ... I like to make cut-up, syncopated complex rythmtrax .... so they often are like 16-32 bars before looping over again . There are always the single hits and shorter clips to spice up ...
2/Only original material .. I'm no DJ
3/Set can be preplanned but I try to do more than just triggering scene after scene ... The more I work with Live, the more I try to improvise on the same scene/theme
4/No
5/Very shortly I'll be buying me an EVolution UC-16 controller (maybe with a second hand small midi keyb. controller) , mostly to map the volume and sends, plus some efx depending on the track. [Have hit at present the limitations of the mouse/keyboard combo using Live].
6/ Yes eg. for triggering a clip while at the same time using the mouse for eg. a filter sweep or so ...
7/ I'm coming to this .. as mentionned above I 've started more and more improvising on a same theme and the need for prelistening is a must than ...
If you're interested at http://ssa.iuma.com you'll find a Live Live set ....
2/Only original material .. I'm no DJ
3/Set can be preplanned but I try to do more than just triggering scene after scene ... The more I work with Live, the more I try to improvise on the same scene/theme
4/No
5/Very shortly I'll be buying me an EVolution UC-16 controller (maybe with a second hand small midi keyb. controller) , mostly to map the volume and sends, plus some efx depending on the track. [Have hit at present the limitations of the mouse/keyboard combo using Live].
6/ Yes eg. for triggering a clip while at the same time using the mouse for eg. a filter sweep or so ...
7/ I'm coming to this .. as mentionned above I 've started more and more improvising on a same theme and the need for prelistening is a must than ...
If you're interested at http://ssa.iuma.com you'll find a Live Live set ....
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
-
logos
-
logos
It really is a mixture of self-sampled material, d/l'd loops, original created sounds & rhythms, ... but I hardly ever use a sample "as is" ... b4 putting it in a track I always try to 'make it mine' by tweaking/morphing/overlaying/duplicating/panning/pitching... it ...
A b-line in my case could sound as one "funky drum loop" , but could in fact been made out of 15 different layers of seperate cut-up samples .
I prefer to work in audio than in midi, so in that respect I'm not a real programmer, more an audio-(de)-constructor
A b-line in my case could sound as one "funky drum loop" , but could in fact been made out of 15 different layers of seperate cut-up samples .
I prefer to work in audio than in midi, so in that respect I'm not a real programmer, more an audio-(de)-constructor
http://www.mbazzy.tk -
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
Mbazzy's "The dysfunctional playground, a scrapbook a bout the shape of useless things" now OUT on Retinascan - http://www.retinascan.de
1. Definately long phrases and short clips. I use big chunks of ambiance- enviromental, synth and percussive - as a bed for the more temporal elements. This can be useful when improvising, as you always have a background going on while you are looking for that one clip or when twiddling effects.
2. I don't use Live as a DJ tool in general, no- but I have found it is fun to drag favorite tracks into Live, just for the sake of tweeking them. Making a Britney Spears song sound like an industrial dirge by twweking tempo and layering effects can be quite entertaining, if you need to take a break from your real work! Its also a good way to sample on the fly, without having to launch the waveform editor....
3. As much improv. as I feel like! That's the beauty of Live... does help to know your raw material VERY WELL, of course...
4. Have had some success using Reason but since I am CPU challenged till I get my new machine, that can be troublesome...
5. No. For some reason it is far easier for me to navigate Live with a computer keyboard, though I use a controller elsewhere....
6. No (See above)
7. No- don't have that capability... would be nice though!
8. Both sitting and standing. I have a standard speaker's podium that has been modified somewhat to make it more stable. I prefer sitting on the floor with my remote keyboard in my lap, to be honest... doesn't really fly that well on stage I suppose!
Sounds like you are on your way to being a power user Scott- love the idea of Live being used in a theatrical setting! Hope it all turns out well for you...
2. I don't use Live as a DJ tool in general, no- but I have found it is fun to drag favorite tracks into Live, just for the sake of tweeking them. Making a Britney Spears song sound like an industrial dirge by twweking tempo and layering effects can be quite entertaining, if you need to take a break from your real work! Its also a good way to sample on the fly, without having to launch the waveform editor....
3. As much improv. as I feel like! That's the beauty of Live... does help to know your raw material VERY WELL, of course...
4. Have had some success using Reason but since I am CPU challenged till I get my new machine, that can be troublesome...
5. No. For some reason it is far easier for me to navigate Live with a computer keyboard, though I use a controller elsewhere....
6. No (See above)
7. No- don't have that capability... would be nice though!
8. Both sitting and standing. I have a standard speaker's podium that has been modified somewhat to make it more stable. I prefer sitting on the floor with my remote keyboard in my lap, to be honest... doesn't really fly that well on stage I suppose!
Sounds like you are on your way to being a power user Scott- love the idea of Live being used in a theatrical setting! Hope it all turns out well for you...