"Set" confusion

Learn about building and using Max for Live devices.
toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

"Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:43 pm

Hello,
My problem here is that although I can use set to reset the dials, if I change a value on any of the dials, the previously set values are not reflected. I cannot think of any simple solution, only of hacks with bucket or in the kind, that would add complexity and put me constantly one value behind.
I'd love to have your opinion...
cheers,
toscanini

Image

Code: Select all

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

broc
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by broc » Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:07 pm

I'm not sure to understand the problem.
Do you want that all dial settings take effect on output at the moment where you change any of them?

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:11 pm

broc wrote:Do you want that all dial settings take effect on output at the moment where you change any of them?

Yes, basically that's it. I use the dials to control a selection of a bigger group of parameters. As I change the selection the dials first need to go to the corresponding values (therefore the set method through a list), but from that point on, the new values should be output even from the un-manipulated dials.

broc
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:37 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by broc » Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:41 pm

I think an obvious solution would be adding a "bang network", but not quite elegant.

<pre><code>
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:34 am

Thank you broc for the suggestion. Your solution is still not the perfect one for my case. I guess the best would be to show you what I have been working on:

...I really love Skrewell, the Reaktor ens, not only for its sound capacities, but also for its central control element, that polycontrol matrix. I have made a Reaktor version of that polycontrol where with 9 dials (8 for the parameters + one selector) I can remotely control 8 of the 8x8 parameters, by row or by column. The only thing that I miss from the Reaktor version is soft takeover: this is why I have been trying to rebuild it with M4L.
This M4L version uses a multislider and a matrixctrl, plus dials to be assigned to MIDI and that are not necessary to be visible afterwards. The idea of my design is that you should be able to use MIDI remote, or the mouse on the polycontrol (in this case a multislider and the surrounding matrixctrl) to make your settings. In the present configuration the live.path objects are pointed to "send" amounts. To see the patch work you should throw it to a track 0 of a live_set, put 8 tracks after it, and 8 return tracks as well.
It is a bit too big a task for me: I have problems avoiding redundancy with these multiple parameter entering possibilities. I am not too sure about the whole bondo method either. And of course there is the problem of parameters jumping to bad positions after selection change. But I think that I am not too far from something useful.
Hope you guys will agree;) all help to finish this patch is very welcome!

Code: Select all

<pre><code>
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SQqPYhuBkI7ZTgxsUxouEJzZTnBWgBExoIoMYEJSrUnLsF663qPYBuFUn7cb
TtITn0nPMm3njG7u+3+e2B6v6
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

pid
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:51 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by pid » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:03 am

hi toscanini.

i am not entirely sure what you are doing either, but maybe this will help:

[edit: screwed up patch and reposted]
<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
3171.3oc6ck0iiiaD94t+Uv3WFfft6HRJpiAYyf8sDf.DfcCPPvbAYKZasir
jijb2i2i+6gGR1TcKYIKSQ69.SO1VWjU8wherHYQpe65qlLM86z7If2C9H3p
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ZbIpKWJIFWh5hSxv1Q8wuaayKRc5NogMk5SKtFFl5SSt9FUjv8woazQJSNV7
gySNWZ6+8oJo8w6.y1iEL4hyDqOUDwNFWj5htBaVtArSekIC57ae3qvFlcvs
OM0XYdYpKuVrglWl5x2Naj4kotbA11w7xTW8TvlXdYpqNTYaadYpq9cZaV2N
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4Bu7bmqWxjgcmqexD7BTlPWfxjyEnLQt.kI6KPYxrty41q4QzviOVebwDMjw
hBJivLkCN0IPuOn2oLZTrC9iq++.+Enwk
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

it is just a question of choosing which system does it, and which system is slaved, and being consistent. i often have copious amounts of multisliders in my patches, usually hidden in subpatchers, as they are very useful for quick and flexable array storing / querying. in your case i would use funnel / spray / pvar - those types of objects.

best.
3dot... wrote: in short.. we live in disappointing times..

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:39 pm

Hi, pid,

thank you for your example. I am always looking forward to studying objects that I have not used before.

...I have just spent the last two hours trying to understand the huge CPU spikes that were also affecting your upload, if I assign all 8 dials to MIDI remote and move the faders simultaneously. Finally I have found out that the problem had to do with the candycane colors of the multislider that you have taken as it was from my example.
A too sexy GUI can kill you :lol:
I am glad to be back to some more useful work!

pid
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:51 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by pid » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:17 pm

hi toscanini,

thanks YOU for your investigating. very interesting indeed. i built the small example in max, not m4l, so i saw no problems. you seem to have found a BUG which you should report, as candycane should definitely not do that!

good luck.
3dot... wrote: in short.. we live in disappointing times..

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:59 pm

Hi pid, broc, M4Lovers,

Here is a new version of my patch, built starting from pid's example. Indeed, the communication between the dials and the multislider is much simpler now. For the data storage I have turned back to a table object. First because I know that I will always need exactly 64 values, secondly because a table object will be connectable to pattr for further use.
I have included a GUI element to illustrate the idea of the modular control. I'd like to be able to control different selections of the matrix, and as I change the selection, I'd like the multislider and the dials to update accordingly to the data found in the new selection. Unfortunately, despite the different approach, the problem of the selection change interfering with the values is still there, just like in my first example.
The selection change here operates first on the multislider, which sends data to the dials. Maybe I am being redundant again...
But I hope this new patch shows a bit better what I am after..
cheers,
toscanini

Code: Select all

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
3715.3oc6cszbiiaD9rmeErTsoprIdbHdSt2Rtka4PtM0TSQKQayYnHUIQMO
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

pid
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:51 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by pid » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:36 am

hey hey.

you were almost there.

the fact that multislider cannot have a 'history' is a pita i know. being max, there are hundreds of ways to go about fixing this. this was my mood today:


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

hth.
3dot... wrote: in short.. we live in disappointing times..

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:28 pm

Hello, pid,

thank you for the example, it works jump-free indeed. However he "select bank" values need to go up to 16 because this allows the controllers to work by row, or by column. I was clueless about how to use your gate mechanism, and saw that you haven't used it yourself in your patch, so I preferred to just implement some changes into your well organized structure in order to recover the "row+column logic". It seems to work ok, but I'll need to test it, and I am expecting new problems due to initialization and preset change. Here is how looks now:

Code: Select all

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

Thank you for all the help,
cheers,
toscanini
Last edited by toscanini on Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

pid
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:51 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by pid » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:47 am

hi toscanini, you seem to have reposted my exact same patch. i cannot see any differences you have made. a mistake i presume?

regarding the silly gate / colls / refer thing - it did nothing - it was just an example for you to explore...
3dot... wrote: in short.. we live in disappointing times..

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:00 am

Oops. My bad. The code from my last post has been replaced now.

pid
Posts: 354
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:51 am

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by pid » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:45 pm

hello toscanini.

i must admit, following your last post, i was TOTALLY confused, and not sure i knew what you wanted anymore. anyway, instead of bailing i decided to mess around with the patch and see what happened.

so, you want an interface to your 64 values as auto updating dials and multislider in banks of 8 ? CHECK
you want to be able to access this data on the fly as either rows or columns from a 64-grid ? CHECK
you want to be able to store all these values as per device / set ? CHECK
and, the bit i never understood: you want to also be able to save these 'banks' of data to a file on disk, so that you can load in differently stored sets of data to access from your controllers? i THINK a 'check'.

i had problems with your last version. it would only visually update the storage ('big' multislider'), but changing banks would screw this up and lose data changes as you were not querying / gating / updating data places in the right order. i must admit your thing with zl nth and coll was really confusing me.

the problem i felt was the new multislider (the big one that i had added! sorry) as you already had an excellent data store/recall function in the patch already in the form of the jit.cellblock. so with this version i got rid of it and put the cellblock to good use. i think this is better no? also, made a system for always being able to write cellblock data to coll and vice versa.

of course i now have no idea if i am being useful or not, and if i am being a pain in the arse or not. i think i am done on this one now as i feel a bit interfering!

anyway, hope all the rambling and dodgy max patching has at least been of some use / help.

best

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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>
3dot... wrote: in short.. we live in disappointing times..

toscanini
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 5:42 pm

Re: "Set" confusion

Post by toscanini » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Hello, pid,
sorry I haven't answered during so long. Your last patch is a big load of information and there are lots of things in it that I do not understand. What I know is that changing selections now works really well. On the other hand, with your whole extensive coll method I am still in the dark.
And there is another aspect: in all new versions of this patch we have been using 1 channel instead of 8 for the entire data transmission. I am talking about the method with spray and funnel. It took me some time to digest the idea that this was sufficient to transmit all parameters from 8 different sources and I really like it. But: since I will end up readapting this patch to transmit from 8 dials into 8 live.remote~ objects, either this will imply some extra patching with zl sub (I have tried and this looks a bit intimidating), or it would be best to do the whole data transmission over 8 channels after all (meaning using pak or bondo).

I'll upload soon a zipped live set with the best version I get of this patch, plus the whole environment around it, and hopefully the whole thing will make more sense. Thank you for all your help, and please don't give up on me :wink:
cheers,
toscanini

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