Envelope Generator !

Teflon · Post by **Teflon** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:44 pm

As a complementation to 'saving enveloppes' a 'envelope generator' would be on top of my wishlist.

The basic idea is that you can generate clip envelopes with a LFO wave.
In this example there are 2 LFO's that can be 'mixed' (morphed) to generate more complex shapes. (A<-->B)..
LFO shape 'A' and 'B' can be chosen from a pre-defined list of shapes.
Each of the 2 LFO's can also be adjusted to 'Beat-mode' or 'Sync-mode' with their independed 'rates'....
Can you imagine how endless the possibilities/ combinations are?

I made a quick visualisation of how this can work and be implemented in Live:

In this example the LFO shape is generating an envelope for Operators' 'Filter Freq.'...

conny · Post by **conny** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:29 pm

Yep, you are right.
I made a post sometime ago with clips containing LFO-generated controller curves in midi clips in Live (I used Plogue Bidule to send the CC's).
But then I noticed something strange: The speed for the control curve does not react to the speed setting for the clip! So if you have a nice LFO curve in the clip, the speed of the CC LFO control responds only to the BMP of the set. And I dont want to do one CC LFO for every thinkable speed!

BTW: Nice graphic work, wetting the appetite!

// C

Teflon · Post by **Teflon** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:08 am

Well thats a real bummer..

I really like this kind of tweaking.. Its like working with hardware, patching cables; little modular touch...
It adds some randomness to your work, but still controllable because its syncable...
This feature would really enrich Live...

Abletons; what do you think? Worth some consideration?

.

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:52 am

You can find an example here:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15894

I think that at least in unliked mode, the clip automation should have an independent bmp setting.

Exporting the clip with the CC curve and playing it in Plogue Bidule to yoke 4, receiving it in Live does give the chance to set it's speed.

// C

Teflon · Post by **Teflon** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:50 am

Thanks.. very usefull..
I will try some CC curves with my Nord modular (that I didn't think of that before?) But still; an internal LFO generator would be very nice cause that one can be automated within Live..

With my proposal I think there should be 2 options/modes;
1. LFO generator as an 'ongoing' envelope modulator, not visible as curves in the envelope view.
2. An option to 'write' the envelope curve to the clips envelope view for further editing...

Oooh man, do I get exited by this idea...!

conny · Post by **conny** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:12 pm

Yes - internal LFO would be fine, too.
That could be like the Simpler but outputting controller data - load the sine preset, the random, the pulse - ?
// C

Teflon · Post by **Teflon** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:33 pm

could you tell me what your set up is in Plogue Bidule? I'am trying right now but I don't get it done..
thanx

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:52 pm

Teflon wrote:could you tell me what your set up is in Plogue Bidule? I'am trying right now but I don't get it done..
thanx

Check the tips and tricks section tomorrow. I will post a tutorial on how to set it up. Once you know how to set up one. You can setup as many as you like.

Cheers

conny · Post by **conny** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:05 am

First I made an LFO to CC Bidule layout and recorded the CC in a MIDI clip in LIVE.
Second I exported the MIDI clip from Live to a MIDI file and loaded that into a simple Bidule layout with just a midi file player and out via yoke to Live. (Could as well have recorded it in Bidule and saving it from there.)

I'm trying to upload the LFO layout but there seems to be some problems...

Try it from here
http://web.telia.com/~u19126355/Bidule/cc_14_LFO.bidule

// C

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:20 am

conny wrote:First I made an LFO to CC Bidule layout and recorded the CC in a MIDI clip in LIVE.
Second I exported the MIDI clip from Live to a MIDI file and loaded that into a simple Bidule layout with just a midi file player and out via yoke to Live. (Could as well have recorded it in Bidule and saving it from there.)

I'm trying to upload the LFO layout but there seems to be some problems...

Try it from here
http://web.telia.com/~u19126355/Bidule/cc_14_LFO.bidule

// C

You seem to have a way to set up an lfo that is different from how i do it.
Have you tried it like this?
http://users.pandora.be/Vayner/dir/---/ ... bidule.zip

conny · Post by **conny** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:51 am

I've added an modulator to make a sine into a modulated sine etc.
You don't need the math for normalizing the +/- from the LFO by way of the param modulator?
// C

Teflon · Post by **Teflon** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:03 pm

Thanks, both of you..
I will try to generate some nice envelopes..
But still; give us an internal!

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:08 pm

conny wrote:I've added an modulator to make a sine into a modulated sine etc.
You don't need the math for normalizing the +/- from the LFO by way of the param modulator?
// C

I just link the parameter modulator to the cc10 value slider. This will modulate the cc. the only math i need is a variable to determine the value of the cc.

What are you using math for? To sync it? or to modulate the modulation signal?

conny · Post by **conny** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:09 pm

The little math, (x+1)/2, where x is the value from the LFO, is to normalize the values from -1 to 1 into 0 to 1, which is the range the CC wants it values. I'm lifting the LFO values so there will be no negatives.

// C

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:28 pm

conny wrote:The little math, (x+1)/2, where x is the value from the LFO, is to normalize the values from -1 to 1 into 0 to 1, which is the range the CC wants it values. I'm lifting the LFO values so there will be no negatives.

// C

If you control the amplitude of the lfo and see where at which amplitude it hits high and low. There really is no need for math. (at least in my case). Even if would want to limit it's output, i could do it with a value scaler. Because i'm controlling it from a midi controller anyway.

EDIT---------------

The tutorial can now be found in the tips and tricks section.
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16731