Maschine vs apc40+mpd18

[sondericker]

I have a Maschine question I'd like answered. I've watched a whole bunch of YouTube videos, including 20+ tutorial series, and I think I basically get how the thing works. It looks like an awesome piece of kit for sitting and jamming out a groove or even a complete song. That being said, the methods used to create sequences, groups and scenes seems like an awful lot like what I'm already doing with Ableton drum racks along with my APC40 and MPD18. I mean I have pads, transport controls, buttons to launch scenes etc. and I'm struggling to understand what a Maschine would do for me that I don't already have. It seems like it might be a tighter user interface, with everything available in one spot, but for me moving between the APC40 and the MPD18 while reaching for the mouse once in a while is already an awful lot of what Maschine is good at. In fact, some things like being limited to 2 effects per sample when in stand-alone mode seems more limiting than what I'm doing now.

Can someone explain why I might still want a Maschine or why it might be useful to me considering the other pieces of equipment I already own? It looks sweet and I love toys; I'm just wondering if I don't essentially already own it.

Thanks.

[skatr2]

I think you essentially own it. I use an apc with hanzs script which also limits my *need* for it. Where its useful is in its compact nature. I do some of my work out of the house and its nice to lose the power cord and maschine fits in a bag much easier.

[humnumb]

There's really nothing else out there right now like Maschine. There's no software with that level of integration between hardware/software. If mouse-free hands-on workflow is important for you, it's a no-brainer.

[invol]

I have an APC 40, a Launch Pad, and Maschine, among other controllers. My APC 40 collects a lot of dust these days : )

[sondericker]

Okay, cool feedback. Thanks guys. Can I use something like Operator to develop tunes using Maschine? Does it integrate in a way that I can use the cool features with my Ableton Suite synths that I am so familiar with? I haven't seen an example of it sequencing a native Abelton synth yet. The examples I've seen all load samples although I know it has VST support now. What about MAX/MSP instruments? Can I do some kind of rewire send/receive to get around that?

Thanks again.

[delicioso]

Okay, cool feedback. Thanks guys. Can I use something like Operator to develop tunes using Maschine? Does it integrate in a way that I can use the cool features with my Ableton Suite synths that I am so familiar with? I haven't seen an example of it sequencing a native Abelton synth yet. The examples I've seen all load samples although I know it has VST support now. What about MAX/MSP instruments? Can I do some kind of rewire send/receive to get around that?

I would highly recommend learning to use Maschine in standalone mode by itself before trying to integrate it with something else. As for integrating with Live, that's been covered here extensively in threads like this: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 11&start=0
and on youtube videos. As for rewire, there's the XT Rewire VST plugin.

[pencilrocket]

If you don't want to touch the computer why don't you buy drum machine? It makes sense.

[djadonis206]

Maschine is awesome. I'm fan boying as we speak

The pros:

Constant inspiration. I don't get caught in the endless loop trap. As soon as I feel it coming up, I load upa new sound, instrument, sample, vst and I'm jamming again

You can record automation directly into patterns. I imagine this is what Live would be like if you could record automation into your clips in session view

Hands on control of just about everything. I didn't know how liberating and inspiring it was to not have to touch my laptop or a mouse

Cons:

The sequencer is limited. For example, you cant record Mute/Solo performances

You can't record automation to the scene. This is similar to how you record automation to a track in arrange view in Live. Even though you have different clips on the same track, they all get the same automation. This is useful if you want to do a long filter sweep

If, or when you have the money, GET IT! And if you already have Komplete, or are interested in getting Komplete, you'll be all the more happy

[JuanSOLO]

I got Machine recently. After years of trying to perfect a drumRack set up, using Hanz's Script, and some M4L devices, I was amazed that Maschine pretty much did everything I was trying to get DrumRacks to do. Scrolling Samples, Pad Drumming, Step Sequencing, intuitive on the fly changes during performance, with an overall a software/hardware integration that just makes simple since, but is complex as needed, without having to "check your email" all the time.

HOWEVER, there are some things Maschine does not do, that I was surprised to find out. No midi out from the Sequencer. This is frustrating because I feel like the sequencer in Maschine is integrated with the hardware to provide some killer features i.e. delete notes while pressing a pad, %50 quantize, etc etc... I want the midi out of the sequencer because I use that data for better pump compression, and other Ableton/M4L tricks. So far it seems to me your sort of stuck with either using Maschine's Sequencer, or Live's. When using Live's then you have those limits, and not near the same integration with Maschine Hardware.

I feel like I have had to make some sacrifices from what I did have going on with DrumRacks and the APC40, but the workflow on Maschine is so FUN and FAST, I won't miss them much longer.

As far as being limited to 2 Aux outs per sample, you can always route each output from Maschine individually in Live, and then have all the sends and FX you desire.

Maschine has seemed to remind me of what Ableton Live was like when I first got it, like how Ableton's promo videos talk of Live as a way to "quickly" capture your ideas, and it does. Maschine seems to do that on a rhythm building angle, and it does it REALLY WELL!

OH yeah, and record automation!!! WAY FUN. It's been said over and over I know, but Ableton really needs to implement that into Session View, DUH!

[delicioso]

HOWEVER, there are some things Maschine does not do, that I was surprised to find out. No midi out from the Sequencer. This is frustrating because I feel like the sequencer in Maschine is integrated with the hardware to provide some killer features i.e. delete notes while pressing a pad, %50 quantize, etc etc... I want the midi out of the sequencer because I use that data for better pump compression, and other Ableton/M4L tricks. So far it seems to me your sort of stuck with either using Maschine's Sequencer, or Live's. When using Live's then you have those limits, and not near the same integration with Maschine Hardware.

???
Not sure what you mean because Maschine DOES have midi out from its sequencer.

[JuanSOLO]

Does it? I feel like I read up a lot about it and discovered that it really does not. For example I can not get the note on an off information from a piano roll tick in Maschine's Sequencer. Another way to put it would be, if I have a kick on Pad 1, and I want to send that "midi out" from my Maschine pattern (or sequencer) into a midi track in Live, I can't, there is no midi out of the sequencer?

If you know something I don't, please enlighten me.

[condra]

I think it depends on how you approach, (or want to approach) your song making process.

Maschine is great for having instant, mouse-free access to a load of instruments, effects, and sound design tools. Other people prefer or are more used to heavy mouse tweaking with Live, and that's ok too!

One of the best features is the VST support. You can load any VST directly from Maschine, without touching the mouse. I love the way it maps VST parameters to the dials under the display, and you can quickly edit and save these maps. This is a feature people don't talk about enough, and it's fantastic. It will bring your VSTs to life, and for some people it will be worth the price of Maschine alone. Eat your heart out Novation.

I've heard people praise Maschine as a sound design tool, but personally (having owned it), I think Maschines strength lies in its Workstation-like instant access features. Instant drum kits, instant VSTs, instant mapped parameters, instant sequencing.

I owned it for a couple of months but we eventually parted company. I'm very much a tweaker and I still feel that mousing around Live is the best route to full, deep control over my sounds, tedious as it may be! Not only that, but having recently ditched Reason Rewire, and Automap, I think Maschine is another layer between me and my sounds - a layer that I really don't need, especially when I have a Launchpad.

There is something for everyone, but I think Maschine is most suited to people making commercial songs, who are less concerned with raw sound design, and more concerned with getting ideas down fast.

[djadonis206]

Does it? I feel like I read up a lot about it and discovered that it really does not. For example I can not get the note on an off information from a piano roll tick in Maschine's Sequencer. Another way to put it would be, if I have a kick on Pad 1, and I want to send that "midi out" from my Maschine pattern (or sequencer) into a midi track in Live, I can't, there is no midi out of the sequencer?

If you know something I don't, please enlighten me.

Here you go playa!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBBhSOWCMk

BTW - to the original poster, I have the APC20. I use it to press play and adjust track volume.

[JuanSOLO]

Here you go playa!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBBhSOWCMk

This is not what I mean at all. This method takes your "pad hits" and puts them into Live's piano roll yes, but then you loose out on some of the things the Maschine Hardware is capable of with it's own sequencer, such as delete notes, etc.

What Maschine does NOT do, is once you have a pattern established in the Maschine Sequencer, and it is playing, NO MIDI data can come from the pattern to Live.

So like I said before, you have to choose, either use Live's Piano roll, or Maschines. Granted you can drag your patterns directly to Live and it create a midi clip, but you can't use Maschines Sequencer to trigger events in Live. I really hope that changes soon.

[djadonis206]

You can use maschine's step sequencer to record into Live, live. If there's notes you don't want, delete them in maschine and start recording a new midi clip in Live.

You wouldn't have to stop the music. This works pretty fluidly if you have an APC.