Korg ESMK2 and Ableton as Machine production tool

[inakiesarte]

Hi there!
I have an Electribe SMK2, the sampler machine one, and I was wondering
if I could use this tool and Ableton as it was Machine, meaning being
able to edit my loops from my computer library on Ableton using the Electribe,
using the step sequencer from the korg to write patterns on Ableton and processing
the sounds from my library on the computer with the effects from the Korg...
Basically as I had Maschine without having it and using Abletons technology for that.
Anyone?
Cheers!

[doghouse]

The simple answer: NO because Maschine is software with dedicated controller hardware, the ES is a hardware instrument that can perform a few generic MIDI control functions


Complex answer:

edit my loops from my computer library on Ableton using the Electribe (I assume you mean in real time) NO

using the step sequencer from the korg to write patterns on Ableton YES You will need a MIDI interface for your computer

processing the sounds from my library on the computer with the effects from the Korg (if the Korg supports processing external audio in real time) YES You will need an audio interface for your computer

Good news: most audio interfaces have MIDI interfacing built in, so you really only need one box

[inakiesarte]

The simple answer: NO because Maschine is software with dedicated controller hardware, the ES is a hardware instrument that can perform a few generic MIDI control functions


Complex answer:

edit my loops from my computer library on Ableton using the Electribe (I assume you mean in real time) NO

using the step sequencer from the korg to write patterns on Ableton YES You will need a MIDI interface for your computer

processing the sounds from my library on the computer with the effects from the Korg (if the Korg supports processing external audio in real time) YES You will need an audio interface for your computer

Good news: most audio interfaces have MIDI interfacing built in, so you really only need one box

First of all thanks for your quick response.
As you understand, I am trying to use Ableton as it was Maschine software, and the electribe as the dedicated controller hardware to control Ableton via midi. I am thinking in creating a template using Ableton different tools to mimic the way Maschine works.
So the first thing to do will be being able to edit my loops that I load for example on Sampler or Simpler, using the controllers from my Electribe. Then I would like to use the 16 step sequencer pads in my Electribe to write down notes on Ableton( I guess this may be the easiest part). To end with, as I really like the effects from my Electribe, I would like to output the audio from Ableton as audio in on my Electribe and bring it back once processed( also easy).
My current soundcard is the NI Audio Kontrol 1, 2 ins/ 4 outs so it wont be a problem on the audio bit...

[doghouse]

I believe the Electribe sends NRPNs when you move the controls rather than CCs (check the manual to confirm this).

I don't think Live supports mapping NRPNs, so you're out of luck for editing with the Electribe. Get some other (cheap) controller that does send CCs, like a Novation Nocturn.

Or buy Maschine

[delicioso]

I believe the Electribe sends NRPNs when you move the controls rather than CCs (check the manual to confirm this).

I don't think Live supports mapping NRPNs, so you're out of luck for editing with the Electribe. Get some other (cheap) controller that does send CCs, like a Novation Nocturn.

Or buy Maschine

Not all the controls on an Electribe send NRPN. The knobs and buttons on the part controls should send regular MIDI CCs (at least I know this is the case on EMX/ESX). You could map those to Live's clip loop start and length which will then control any selected clip.

Also there's a NRPN MIDI Converter plugin as part of the free Piz MIDI plugins: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300566

Even after all that, it still won't be anywhere close to the functionality of Maschine.

[doghouse]

NRPN is regular MIDI. It's simply a collection of multiple CCs that allow mfrs to specify additional control above and beyond the 128 available CCs. Understanding MIDI is difficult enough without making confusing statements about it.

The ES-1 manual indicates it only sends NRPNS....the only CCs supported are 6, 38 (data entry) and 98, 99 (used for NRPN).

4. Using NRPN messages to edit
NPRN (Non Registered Parameter No.) messages are messages to which manufacturers are free to assign their own functions. On the ES-1mkII, NRPN are assigned to all knobs and keys except for the accent part key of the Part Edit section and the Effect section. To edit, first use NRPN (LSB) [Bn, 62, rr] and NRPN (MSB) [Bn, 63, mm] (control change #98 and 99) (rr, mm: lower and upper bytes of the parameter no.) to select the parameter. Then transmit Data Entry (MSB) [Bn, 06, mm] and Data Entry (LSB) [Bn, 26, vv] (control change #06 and 38) (mm, vv: upper and lower bytes of the value, together expressing 16,384 steps) to set the value. The ES-1mkII uses only the MSB value (128 steps) of the Data Entry message.

[inakiesarte]

I believe the Electribe sends NRPNs when you move the controls rather than CCs (check the manual to confirm this).

I don't think Live supports mapping NRPNs, so you're out of luck for editing with the Electribe. Get some other (cheap) controller that does send CCs, like a Novation Nocturn.

Or buy Maschine

I have the Novation Nocturn already and I have to say it works fantastic with Ableton Live already. If I have open a new post its really because I found Ableton a more powerfull tool than Maschine as everything you can do in Maschine, it can be done with Ableton Live, therefore Im not thinking in buying it really.

I believe the Electribe sends NRPNs when you move the controls rather than CCs (check the manual to confirm this).

I don't think Live supports mapping NRPNs, so you're out of luck for editing with the Electribe. Get some other (cheap) controller that does send CCs, like a Novation Nocturn.

Or buy Maschine

Not all the controls on an Electribe send NRPN. The knobs on the part controls should send regular MIDI. You could map those to Live's clip loop start and length which will then control any selected clip.

Also there's a NRPN MIDI Converter plugin as part of the free Piz MIDI plugins: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300566

Even after all that, it still won't be anywhere close to the functionality of Maschine.

Why do you think Maschine has more functionallity than Ableton? what make you think that?

Thanks everyone for their replys, its being super helpfull and im learnng so much

[humnumb]

Why do you think Maschine has more functionallity than Ableton? what make you think that?

He didn't say one thing has "more functionality". He means that the functionality you get with Maschine is particular to how it works with the dedicated controller and can't be simply imitated by mapping a MIDI controller to Live which will still feel like using software and a MIDI controller. Using another software with a MIDI controller can't come anywhere to close to Maschine as it will lack anything close to true integration like Maschine which allows you to be mouse-free and even lets you turn off the computer screen if you want to. The close integration between Maschine's hardware controller and its software allows it to have the hands-on workflow previously only found on standalone hardware that you just can't get with simple midi controllers.

Part of the beauty and workflow feel of Maschine is the disconnected feel it allows for. It gives you that focused feel by allowing to work so well from a centralized point with minimal deviation. That by itself is huge. A dumb MIDI controller will still force you to click around with the mouse/trackpad quite a bit. The actual experience of using them is like night and day and this alone makes all the difference for those who know and value the fun and efficient hardware-style hands-on workflow.

And there's actually a long list of what Maschine offers that you can't really do in Live. You can't record real-time modulation (as in record your knob tweaks) in Live's Session View clips. Maschine has its own version of session view with scenes and clips with the huge advantage of being able to record modulation of almost everything as you turn the knobs in real-time.

Also, you can't do any of the following with Live only while looking at a controller no matter what controller you use: browsing/loading samples, navigating, sampling, slicing, zooming in and out of waveforms, applying dsp audio edits, opening/saving projects...etc. Maschine can do all of that just from the dedicated controller because of the way it's designed. Maschine has two LCD displays on the hardware itself that shows the names for the controls and things like actual waveforms, so you don't have to look at the computer screen at all if you don't want to. Even with something like the APC40, you're not going to get the level of visual feedback that you get on Maschine's dual displays showing device/parameter names and values anywhere else. This is also why Maschine excels as a general purpose MIDI controller due to the ability to customize the names of parameters and see what you're controlling directly on the hardware's displays. These little things do add up to a very unique experience that can feel like you're using hardware.

Maschine just goes way further in terms of the software/hardware relationship. For example, the 'undo' function. In Live, this is a keyboard shortcut. In Maschine it's on the hardware (via a 'shift + pad' combo) Now, you COULD map the 'undo' keyboard command to a MIDI controller in Live, but you'd need Bomes or some other layer of additional software to achieve it. And this is just the undo function: there are more complex operations available from the Maschine hardware that is just not possible in Live right now, although touchAble on iPad gets the closest in terms of total mouseless control of Live.

Live also doesn't have Maschine's tactile hardware x0x step sequencer with full visual feedback through backlit pads and dual displays, and its own version of Machinedrum-style step parameter locks. Irreplaceable for experimenting and coming up with stuff you would have never come up with otherwise.

Also Maschine lets you loop single or multiple scenes easily (and entirely from the dedicated hardware of course) which is like if Live could do Follow Action for scenes not just clips.

And Maschine's plugin automapping implementation effectively turns any VST/AU plugin instantly into hardware and is much more elegantly implemented and useful than what any MIDI controller is capable of. And if you have anything from Komplete 8 (Maschine comes with Komplete Elements for free), the integration is even closer.

[inakiesarte]

Thanks for your dedicated reply, it all does much more sende now