Question for Ableton & External Consoles/Mixers

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:39 am

Hi,

I'm new to the world of Ableton.

My setup is currently a DJM600 Mixer and 2 x CDJ1000 CD turntables. I have been DJ'ing for a number of years.

I have also just invested in a Powerbook g4 MAC.
I’m about to buy Ableton, however I don’t like the ‘no hands’ approach to mixing.
What is the best console to use with ableton, and how do you beatmix/beatmatch with ableton when you don’t have a physical turntable to ‘assist’ you with? Please shed some light on this for me.

I saw some articles on Sasha using his own creation of “MAVEN”. Is there anything on the market that does the same thing? I’ve looked into some m-audio stuff, but it appears to me that you need 3 pieces of equipment to peform one task?

Either way, can someone explain a typical setup to me if they were to DJ using Ableton Live? (equipment names, models, etc..) and how this would be linked up and used.
I've read the tutorials on the ableton site, but the tutorials only talk about using ableton with keyboard/mouse, not external equipment which is what I want to use... I couldn't think of anything worse than to mix with a mouse!

Thanks guys!

Ralph.

Desiduous · Post by **Desiduous** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 2:29 am

http://www.faderfox.de/

http://www.zzounds.com/item--EVOUC33E

or for the more DJ inclined :
http://www.evolution.co.uk/products/evo_xsession.htm

hope that helps you out

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:56 am

Ok, comments below..

http://www.faderfox.de/

This is too small, I want something equivalent to the size of a Pioneer DJM600 Mixer.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--EVOUC33E

Looking better, but where is the crossfader??? And the headphones jacks, etc? Do I need the XSession as my crossfader? What else can the xsession do for me in Ableton?
Is the UC33e used for track 1 and track 2, etc in Ableton?

Now that the mixer stuff is sorted out, how do I beatmix/beatmatch my tracks in Ableton? I dont have an external console (i.e - a turntable!) to do this with? I've read all the articles on the ableton web site, but nothing describes if you can use EXTERNAL equipment together with ableton?
Or is beatmatching done for you when you import tracks into ableton?

Does anyone have a .AVI or movie clip of how ableton is used in a DJ scenario?

Can I also use my existing setup (see original post) with Ableton? Or do I have to buy a new mixer etc??? I heard Allen & Heath make a good mixer which has MIDI output for Ableton? Some recommendations please...

Ralph

mosesdownload · Post by **mosesdownload** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:15 am

maybe you should look into ni traktor for your powerbook dj needs.

my traktor setup is an ibook g4, mbox, oxygen 8 and a vestax pmc17a

i don't even have t otouch the laptop when playing music, and since you are already used to using a standard dj mixer this setup would work well for you.

i just started using ableton live 4 and it seems like its better suited for composing music rather than djing. traktor is dedictaed to djing and another plus with traktor is that it plays mp3s.

*** i'm not trying to put down ableton live 4 in anyway... even though i am very new to the program, i see its potential for making music and it is exactly what i want in an audio app... but i don't see greatness in a sj setup.

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:26 am

I've looked into Traktor, but it's not what I want..
Ableton is definately the path I want to go down, I just need a surface console (i.e - mixer) that I can use instead of a mouse and keyboard.
I'm seriously considering the Evolution stuff "XSession" and "Uc33E" to do my mixing in conjunction with Ableton Live.

I haven't even installed Ableton yet, so I've got no idea how to beat mix/beat match the tracks, cut/cue/mess with treble bass or any of that, so any tutorials on this would be super!! Anybody??

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:26 am

if you want something similar to a Pioneer mixer, then just use a pioneer mixer and an 8 output interface for your laptop.
if your pb has pcmcia, the Hammerfall Multiface with Cardbus
if it does not, Motu 828Mk2

easy enough.

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:35 am

What about an XSession17 as the Crossfader and a UC33e as the mixer?

Any good? Or better still is there something BETTER out there?
I don't really care about price at this stage!
Does Allen & Heath make something for this type of scenario?

Desiduous · Post by **Desiduous** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:09 am

http://www.behringer.com/BCD2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Check that out !!! i've seen it used in conjuction with Ableton for some very good results,.. don't do the dj thing myself, but i can see how this would be good if you want a midi controler with a real "feel" for a turntable

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:39 am

I think i want to get away from using turntables as such and use a controler surface desk (like sasha uses now with MAVEN and Ableton), cue my songs and beatmatch my tracks using ableton, and then use my 'mixer' to mix my tracks, crossfade, etc...
I know this is definately possible because I've seen it being done!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:40 am

http://www.ucapps.de/

Make whatever you need if you're that way inclined.

The firmware they use is quite good, but doesn't do everything.
(such as drum triggers with velocity)

MAVEN is probably built using this or something very similar.

Sec I've seen photos......

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:44 am

http://www.rhythmism.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19531

http://mvgals.net/gallery/spundae-022505/IMG_0670
hmmm seems he runs audio thru it as well as midi......

-Ben

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:19 pm

What does everyone think of this package?
Is this as close as I'm going to get to doing digital audio mixing???
I've chcecked out the sites that MrYellow has pointed out, however you can't buy any of those (are they only projects?).
I'm looking to go into a shop in the next few weeks, and purchase some equipment (or off the net). But I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys are using with Ableton (any DJ's out there??)

Check out the link, and tell me what you think... or point me in the right direction (if the link is the wrong thing).

http://www.platinum-records.com/UC-33E- ... od7343.htm

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:28 pm

i think its funny they badged Sasha's name on that.

take away the X-session and you can call it the Adam Jay Ableton Live Package.

....sigh... i was so ahead of my time when i sold my UC-16.

but seriously. if those are all the things you want then its a good bundle.
you could buy them seperately and it would cost about the same or less (Firewire Audiophiles are new on eBay for $130 but it now these days, and they come with an upgrade card for Live 4 that allows you to buy it for only $250!, add another $300 for the evolutions and thats $680 for all that stuff instead)

here's my Million Dollar diamond encrusted advice for you:
Get Ableton first.... at the most, the Firewire Audiophile and Ableton.
and see how you personally use the application before you commit to buying anymore gear.
I knew that the way i use Live required a UC-33. Not an x-session, not a microkontrol, etc.

Software first, hardware second.

rengel · Post by **rengel** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:12 am

Cheers for the advise AdamJay

Much appreciated..

I downloaded Live last night onto my PowerBook and installed it.
A few short minutes after opening the program, I almost had a heart attack.. it looks like a brilliant program, but I can't find the simple'fundamentals' of dj'ing, such as:

- Crossfader?
- channels/kill switches?
- simply beatmatching 2 tracks?
- listening to channel 1 on headphones, and channel 2 through monitors?

I've looked high and low on forums, live's web site, tutorials, but I can't seem to find any material that would help me get a grasp of the program and how it works. Any recommended sites/tutorials, etc?

What does the Firwire Audiophile do? Is it used so you can plug up all your devices, through a normal mixer (like miy pioneer djm600) and headphones, etc?

So in your post, are you saying:

- UC33e - is used for bringing channels (i.e - track 1 or track 2) in? and using the knobs to gain treble/bass/midrange, etc?
- XSession17 - is used for crossfading between channel 1 and channel 2?

Has anyone heard the Sasha mix when he was on Kiss100FM Jan 2nd, 2005? Did he do that mix with Live & Maven, or decks?

I'm really hungry do get into this app, I just need to understand how I would use my external console (i.e - UC33) first.

For example, cueing tracks, tempo, rewind, pause, etc.. how is this done in Live without a physical turntable to adjust the track?

Sorry for the dumb questions..

drush · Post by **drush** » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:28 am

when you say you downloaded Live does that mean you bought it?
or does the demo come with a manual?

i don't mean to be one of those flip "RTFM" ppl, but the answers to all your questions lie within.

remember that while Live is a terrific dj-ish program, it's not intended to mock the dj environment. if you want to create a certain effect (like kill switches, for example: load an EQ3 on that track, start killing. assign some midi controllers if you want to) you need to generally tell Live what you want to do. the crossfader is right there in the lower right corner of the screen. remember that you have to warp tracks first in order to make them play in sync with eachother. it's easy enough to do but you do not have a beatmatched-out-of-the-box solution there.

you might also be well served by just navigating around the app for a while and reading all the things that come up in the info window (lower left window, when activated).

and for god's sake, stop talking about sasha.