Sound design and writing. Separate, joined? What do you do?

[aioffermann]

This question was inspired by the thread on experimentation, with a title along the lines of "this video reminded me of what electronic music is really all about".

Recently I've switched things up. I get on the laptop, make whatever I want at the moment just for pure pleasure and soooooort of build a beat/track as time goes on. I end up getting a loop going with a few variations and with all sounds used so far about three-quarters-finished. Maybe, if it's a productive day, I'll have an A section AND a B section, but usually it's just one loop with a few variations.

I used to do this from the ground up every day. Actually pretty much for the past two years. Now I've gotten busy enough to be interested in recycling material. Now I'll start from the ground up and when things start to slow down I'll peak around past projects and find little sounds and loops etc to throw in and recycle, manipulate, give new life to etc etc etc..

I definitely need to be more organized about that latter part, however.

I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to my ideal workflow, but something still seems to be missing. Maybe I haven't given this new method enough time.

ANYWAY!!! What are you guys doing? Building instruments for days and then pulling em in and JUST writing? Or something more like me, sound design/writing semi-equally? Or maybe you write with presets and then design your own sounds later? I've been thinking of doing that recently as well..

Let's hear!

[aioffermann]

I'm going to try spending the next few days going through all my projects and categorizing sounds, standardizing stuff etc.. Then from here on out I think I'll just save 30 mins from each session to do that. That way you mix them up, and separate after. Best of both worlds?

[aioffermann]

Store them as Racks in folders.

Yea I know. That's what I'm going to start doing today/tomorrow etc. Suuuuch a pain how I do it right now. Open project folder -> skip through tracks with names like 18 audio 23 snare -> find something I like -> pull it in. It's the second step that kills me haha. Augh, the organization side to electronic music

[guanche]

I wouldn't do that. That's so tedious... and i don't think making music should be tedious at all.

I understand your 'lack of workflow', it sucks becouse you don't finish tracks. If you are not very good programing sounds then i would practice. If you are, then i would try to break your patterns, start somewhere else, different approach... I've recently quit smoking and this has speed up the process of making a track enough not to loose interest before finishing it (no BS). So now, when i'm working at the studio, i AM working, focused... Try to know what you want and do it right away. If you have to first think how to do it... no bueno...

[d.reamonn]

Depends. If your SD involves slamming a frog with the Oxford Dictionary, surrounded by a 7 mic setup and a box of Malteasers, best not do it at the same time as toffeeing your automation.

[d.reamonn]

Gigabyte EP45 DS3, Q8200 2.33Ghz, 2x1Gb ddr2 800Mhz, Asus nVidia EN7300 GT Silent, Seagate barracuda ST3250410AS 250Gb (system), Maxtor STM 3500320AS 500Gb (data), tcelectronic desktop konnekt 6. Nothing overclocked. No internet.

[aioffermann]

Well if i just wanted to make tracks thatd be a different story. I used to just make tracks, was all good. Thing is now i want to be able to perform and improvise any track i plan on making, not just have it sitting in arrange view. In other words for every track i make i want to be able to use virtually every element in a live set, ya dig? Mrgh, why so much harder to explain things when typing on a phone??? I feel pike none of thst made sense

[aioffermann]

Haha, @de.reamonn, actually thats kinda what i do. I try to only make original sounds. Field recordings and analog synth recordings are the creative limits ive set for source material at the moment.

[oddstep]

Because the behaviour of a synth patch often suggests music its difficult to separate sound design and composition. I simply enjoy making synth and max patches, at some point in the testing them out phase I move on from playing one note to playing a chord progression, melody or rhythm that does something interesting with the patch. I then record this in session view and save the live set in a project called notes. I also save the preset as a rack at this point. If I want to add some ideas to the 'song' i'll look through racks I've made previously or packs that come with Live. A lot of the time i use a triangle wave synth and either a sliced up break or a 909 sample set; just as placeholders. Later on I'll come back to the Live set and add better synths.
Another way I start a song is by relaxing with a keyboard, ambling through melodies, once I stumble onto something I like I try to record it quickly and build it up.
What's great about Live and session view in particular is that its really easy to combine different live sets together and jam out arrangements; which can then be turned back into sessions for further improvisation.

[aioffermann]

Because the behaviour of a synth patch often suggests music its difficult to separate sound design and composition.

See, that was pretty much my view for the last few months.

Because the behaviour of a synth patch often suggests music its difficult to separate sound design and composition. I also save the preset as a rack at this point. If I want to add some ideas to the 'song' i'll look through racks I've made previously or packs that come with Live.

Don't you think you're contradicting yourself a bit here? The first sentence makes it sound like you view sound design as tied to a track exclusively. But then you go on to say you like to mix n match. I like to mix and match too (= Especially with the bit you mention about saving things as racks - you're separating writing and sound design right there!

Whenever my next Live session happens I'm going to try to separate sound design and writing quite completely. I plan on starting the session and COMPLETELY making an instrument before moving on. I mean spanning the entire key and velocity range. This is fine with me, I like making instruments. It just means I have to resist the temptation to quick gratification in other areas =D .. That's cool!

A lot of the time i use a triangle wave synth and either a sliced up break or a 909 sample set; just as placeholders. Later on I'll come back to the Live set and add better synths.

I've also been thinking of doing this, exclusively, without any of my original sounds, and then replacing all the sounds one by one. This idea along with what I mentioned above is sounding like it'll lead to a much cleaner library. I'm pretty excited. Hopefully if all goes well within a few months I'll finally be able to jam out like the guitarist I was two and a half years ago and have the skeleton of a track, sounds and writing. Schwoop!

I like you're thinking buddy, but I think the opening of your paragraph betrays you

EDIT: BTW just skimmed thru some of your tunes, me likey!

[david.barker]

Im still learning computer based music,but I tend to write my ideas down,kind of story board
have a folder on the desktop,and put all my stuff in there

I tend to work from that designing sounds,that fit togehter,and usually have 3 versions going,before I decide on the final one

Tweaking the sounds,moving stuff ,automating,the usual suspects,

I usually land up with a test MP3 to listen to,before uploading onto Soundcloud

[d.reamonn]

Im still learning computer based music,but I tend to write my ideas down,kind of story board
have a folder on the desktop,and put all my stuff in there

I tend to work from that designing sounds,that fit togehter,and usually have 3 versions going,before I decide on the final one

Tweaking the sounds,moving stuff ,automating,the usual suspects,

I usually land up with a test MP3 to listen to,before uploading onto Soundcloud

If I may interject, sir, you sure ain't fucking about.

[The Carpet Cleaner]

Usually, I believe that sound design and writing work together.

A sound will inspire something so you'll create another channel with another sound that complement the first one and with a rhythm and melodie that work all together.

But sound design doesn't mean to create things from scratch. Choosing the right kick and the right bass is part of the sound design.

At least, that's my point of view.

[aioffermann]

Usually, I believe that sound design and writing work together.

A sound will inspire something so you'll create another channel with another sound that complement the first one and with a rhythm and melodie that work all together.

But sound design doesn't mean to create things from scratch. Choosing the right kick and the right bass is part of the sound design.

At least, that's my point of view.

Yes yes yes, BUT...

Think of this: What if you spent a day making a really good kick drum from scratch, spanning all velocities. And then the same for a snare, bass, chord synth, hats, ornamental things etc etc etc

If you went one by one this probably wouldn't take much more than a week.

Then you take these instruments that are now completely playable and focus on the WRITING part, somewhat ignoring the sounds. You build a bunch of scenes - intro, part a, part b etc etc etc..

Then you listen back and you can modify these sounds to work much better in the context you've put them in.

I know I've said I'm about to start trying this about a million times in this thread but, well, that's what I'm going to try. I'll report the results. I'm anticipating a gooood feeling.

Of course there's no right or wrong here but I'm really enjoying the discussion.

EDIT: Oh and I'm not saying you can't have your hi-hats going on while you design the kick. I'm more so saying I'm going to try focusing on ONLY the sound design before any real writing, then go and focus on ONLY the writing with these pretty-good-sounds, then tweak to perfection etc etc

[The Carpet Cleaner]

Yes everyone have their own methods

To me, that seems not really time efficient.
You re spending a week to create sounds, that at the end might not work well together. Moreover, while designing the sounds, you could have some inspiration to place your new sound in a riff or a beat, and passed on that occasion.

Maybe good if you are working on a sample pack