Lush reverb in the style of Bonobo and Emancipator

[ThreadMusic]

Just wondering how these guys get such LUSH reverbs??

Is it in the sampling that they use? I've tried to get that really really nice reverb but have failed miserably.

Any techniques or ideas?

[panten]

Any tracks in particular that inspire you?

[ThreadMusic]

Oh yes!

For starters

Jets by Bonobo


Natural Cause and Greenland by Emancipator.

But I like pretty much every single track from Emancipator.

Thanks!

[prprprpr]

i bet that you use analog, or real drum samples... i believe it's more about sound source, than reverb. you should try use field recording for your drums, or percussion whatever, then tweak ableton reverb and delay until you are happy. Try put reverb on return track, send the sound signal you want to get wet. Make return track loud, so you can hear what you doing, tweak as you want, then turn the fader down and blend it just a little. Personally for me reverb always sounds very muddy and fatiguing, but when it's quiet it's perfect for gluing mix elements together.

[panten]

Have you tried Live 9's Convolution Reverb? I think it sounds great. I also think reverb sounds better when it's dark or fades to dark. Try resampling the wet reverb sound then reassembling back into your mix and use effect to add some warmth or eq it to your taste. I'm no expert at this but I love experimenting.

[ThreadMusic]

Panten,

Thats not a bad idea, resample the reverb send only.... i think I may have to try that when I get home

Another idea is to maybe run my drum samples out of a speaker and record here at my work. The room I'm in sounds incredible LOL.

Yea its all organic sounds on those records and I live in an apartment. I can't get away with too much in there....

[re:dream]

Good question

I find reverb is very hard to do well.

Maybe it is my tin ears but I don't hear very heavy use of reverb on the Bonobo track

Their sound palettes are very beautifully done and subtle.

Even on that Emancipator track only a few things are reverb. And the reverb seems to be ducked or side-chained if I hear correctly.

[beats me]

Good artist choices, although they don’t make me think Kings of Reverb.

My reverb skills suck as well. When I use it, it always comes out in one of two ways, “Can’t hear it at all” or “Recorded in a bathroom”.

[ThreadMusic]

Exactly,

You can't "hear" this reverb, but the recordings are so friggin lush, i just don't know how you would do this....

I'd say its the rooms, but emancipator records in a tiny spot. Direct guitars. Electric violins....

I don't get how he can create such lush music. Bonobo is a master too, he's got a lot of nice gear and a ton of know how. Man, chasing this sound is killing me!

[panten]

I like reverb that you don't initially hear, that creates space letting your mind you drift into the sound. Both Bonobo and Emancipator do this well in my ears. (thanks for exposing me to the latter btw)

[ThreadMusic]

Panten,

No problem man, he is hands down my favorite artist right now. Enjoy!

[DrTone]

Giving your examples a quick listen I thought that (1) the reverb is not that dark, but rather bright (though I for one like darker reverbs much better), and (2) it is used mainly on percussive instruments with a lot of high frequency content (claps, snare etc.) - while many other instruments/voices (keys, kicks, other percussion etc.) do not seem to be drenched heavily in reverb.

I think that is one main point in keeping the reverb quite upfront, while not drowning the whole track; use it sparsely on some prominent voices.

Second important thing would be reverberation time. This is always the key parameter to any reverb sound..."Jets" eg. seems to employ a 3-4sec tail (which is already on the long side). Try adjusting this parameter first.

Lastly, frequency content: darker reverbs blend better with the rest; brighter stand more out in their own right. If you intend using the reverb as an effect (as opposed to using it as a room-simulation)...you are pretty free in that respect. If you want that breathy type of effect, make shure, you have enough content in the 3-6k range.

The rest (eg. choice of algorithm) are imo just matters of taste. I for one find Lives new convolution reverbs brilliant. But "Jets" should be perfectly doable even with the stock reverb.

One crucial thing I forgot: early reflections and the onset of the reverb. Often, it helps to delay the reverb for some miliseconds (say 3-30), to make the original sound stand out but still have a lot of reverb. Also, it does not sound as if "Jets" uses a lot of early reflections; but there is certainly a synched delay, which is auxed to the reverb. This makes for a washy, dreamy sound, too.

Hope that helps a bit.

[ThreadMusic]

Tone,

Interesting stuff man. I figured the pre delay was set up kinda high to keep the nice transients on those drums but still having a nice amount of reverb.

Youre saying to put the output of my delay return to the input of the reverb return? That's pretty neat, I've never tried that, will have to give that a go on a track im working on. Another thing to mention, there's not a lot going on at the same time in these tracks yet they sound so full. In order for me to get that "full" sound I have to layer and layer and layer and it ends up sounding messy and disconnected...

I think with good use of these effects i can "glue" just a few parts together to sound nice and big. I have a lot to learn trying to produce down tempo/chill/ambient. I'm still new at that genre but it's the one I listen to the most. Im gonna mess with the new convolution reverb later but I really can't stand 9 for the fact that everytime i push a button on APC or highlight midi notes it snaps and crackles... ableton still hasn't gotten back to me on what that could possibly be. Even with no controllers on, I still get crackling. that's another thread though

If I use a bunch of reverb it gets washed out. If I use too little it feels too dry. I wonder if their drum samples have reverb on them already?? If so where did they get those sounds!

Any ideas on using "organic" sounds and where to find them? I can't really get a double bass and a rhodes in my tiny apartment the vst's just don't sound "right"....

[DrTone]

Hey Thread,

seems like reverb is not your only trouble-place... ...just some quick remarks.

(1) Reducing the number of simultaneous voices/tracks is the key. Layering and layering leads to nowhere imo. Rather swap different sounds in and out, try combinations etc. This is, what live excels at. I try to avoid layering. Lushness/fullness is achieved imo by combining a very limited number of well blended voices. Choice of these voices is the real craft of mixing...not layering.

(I for instance have the habit to begin with a simple idea and then start from there by producing a massive number of variations of the first idea-clips. Eg. if I had a beat, a guitar riff and a bass, I would generate 10 or 20 variations of this first idea...either using other sounds or rhythm-patterns etc. Then I combine those and listen carefully to get a hold on what I call the "inner musical voice" of my initial idea...)

(2) Crackle...is a completely different topic. Sometimes the interface gets out of sync. Restarting Live (or even the computer) should remedy this. However, there are many possible causes for audio crackle...cables, sample clock synchronisation etc.

(3) "Bunch of reverbs" does indeed not sound all that good. Normally, you would not used samples with a lot of room (but ofcourse, everything is possible). As I said, I believe the key point to be to use the reverb on assorted voices only...but heavily on these. Send just the snare, a clap, and some clicks to the bright reverb with a long tail (>3sec). Everything else fairly dry; maybe another, shorter (1.5-2.5sec) pretty dark reverb for voices etc. No reverb on bass-heavy content. Should get you close.

(4) "Organic" is unfortunately a pretty unclear term. There are plenty of nice sampled (often old, sometimes a bit defunkt) instruments, that do sound anything but sterile. Wurli-Sounds, old uprights...sorry, I dont really know, what you are looking for. But also Operator can produce some nice not-so-clean chaos that changes over time...or granulator can organify a clean sample to quite some degree. Playing and listening, I'd say.

[ThreadMusic]

Tone,

Thanks for all the help brother!

Yea, thats a good idea on creating variations, i never work in session view ( I come from Pro Tools and Logic) but I should give that a go for a track or two

2. Crackle, there is absolutely no crackling like this in Live 8 Suite, just in Live 9 Suite. That's whats driving me nuts. I'd think if it were interface/cables/etc this would be a problem in both?

3. This helps a LOT, im looking forward to using this long weekend and really getting my hands dirty with reverb. Before I'd use reverb to give my music a space. Now I'll be using it totally different in trying to achieve a "vibe"

Man I need to sit down and just play my instruments for a week or two, get back into "playing" mode and not writing/messing with settings mode"

Do you have any songs you care to share?

Thanks again for all your help!