Augmented/hybrid Control of Ableton....

[alltomorrowsparties]

firstly major shout out to Richard (wiffbi) for making-and constantly updating-this wonderful script.

So here's a simple, efficient means of controlling Ableton with any generic controller without the need for page turns, bank flips, menus, guesswork and general loss of sanity/productivity.

It allows you to control plugins/synths, mutes, solos, auxes, level, pan (and loads of other stuff if you want..full details below....

It's based on the idea that the mouse is both awesome and terrible. It is terrible for tweaking but awesome for navigating. ie it is really easy to find one track in the middle of say 64 using the mouse than say flipping through banks of 8 on a controller.

So with this in mind, i set out to build something that utilizes the mouse for what it's good at and utilizes knobs and buttons for what they're good at....

So to give you a breif example of how this works..I have an 8 button/ 8 endless encoder novation nocturn but it can work with whatever you've got. Minimum required is 8 encoders (preferably endless to avoid takeover mode)

Basically.... When I select a track either by cursor or mouse the novation assumes control of that specific track ie NOTHING is hardwired to a specific track or device. everything changes dynamically depending on what track you have selected.....You can control anything track specific (and quite a lot more besides) but in my case I have setup the nocturn to (blue hand) the previously selected device and I also have solo/mute/arm. I also have 2 buttons dedicated to navigating plugin devices and 2 further buttons to navigate tracks. This is handy for when tracks are pretty close together and saves having to use the mouse for anything other than selecting tracks that are far away from eachother.

If this sounds pretty basic, it really isn't. I have chosen to keep it that way to avoid page flips and menus.... You can of course set this up to be as simple or as complex as you like depending on how many banks your controller will allow.

The brains behind this setup is the wonderful 'selected track control' or STC. It's basically a really well implemented and designed script which communicates with Abletons API in many many ways myriad ways I havent even begun to fathom.

Heres a list of the many functions it can tap into within Abe... http://stc.wiffbi.com/midi-implementation-chart/
Here's the forum dedicated to it....viewtopic.php?f=1&t=120868&start=0

It even can do all this stuff with key commands if you so choose. Amazing!


Finally the other part of why this setup works so good is down to macros...


While it does take a little while to get all your plugs setup in rack format, the time spent really is worth it. It isn't necessary if you have something like push but even so I would still highly recommend it as it avoids things like "lfoOsc2Mod1"

To set up..
1- Download and unzip... the newest version (it won't work as described without V.1.3.2) here http://stc.wiffbi.com/files/stc-1.3.2.zip
2-Follow these instructions...http://stc.wiffbi.com/download/
3- Nocturn users require an additional step. You need to open the MIDI.py file (located in the folder you just downloaded) On the second last line where it says...

Code: Select all

def __init__(self, cc, mode = RELATIVE_TWO_COMPLIMENT, channel = DEFAULT_CHANNEL):

you need to replace with

Code: Select all

def __init__(self, cc, mode = RELATIVE_SIGNED_BIT, channel = DEFAULT_CHANNEL):

Also to note Nocturn users when assigning the encoders within Automap make sure they are set to increment decrement (not continuous)

Bonus.... nocturn users can combine the nocturn default script with the STC scripts as per this arrangement..... (note if you are using my Automap [download link below] this step is required)



This allows the nocturn script to be called when encoders are turned (hence enabling the nice visual feedback with the leds around the encoders) and the STC script will be called for all other controls.

Finally I cannot stress enough how grateful I am to Richard (wiffbi) for making this incredible script. It seemed like every day this week he came out with a new version based on my needs. what an unbelievably kind and generous thing to do for someone. Seriously Thankyou thankyou thankyou!!

edit..mac/windows compatible. Works with all versions of live. No Max/msp required


Edit....

added 'scroll tracks' to crossfader. This is useful as it allows you to scroll through large chunks of tracks without mouse. It also updates the view and it is nice the way it is absolute (as in wherever the crossfader lies between left and right, this is also a visualization of where you are in your project. Very handy for quickly finding the right track.

These can of course be changed to standard crossfader functions if that's your thing.

I also added ONE MORE PAGE (that's 2 in total) for volume pans and auxes.
Also changed the transport a little (got rid of mute in favour of record)

Here's the updated Automap.... http://ge.tt/7R3KK5p/v/0?c

Here's page one....simple!....



Last Edit (promise!)

The resolution of the crossfader can and should be changed depending on how many tracks you usually have in your project. My default setting for the crossfader in automap is 24. This corresponds to a span of 24 ableton tracks....
You can (and should) change this setting lower if you work with fewer tracks as the resolution increases.

That's all!

[re:dream]

It isn't necessary if you have something like push but even so I would still highly recommend it as it avoids things like "lfoOsc2Mod1"

Precisely. I have Push and STC & racking all my instruments and controls adds tons of on-the-fly usability

[alltomorrowsparties]

Precisely. I have Push and STC & racking all my instruments and controls adds tons of on-the-fly usability

I completely agree. I think I'm gonna set up a page for racking standard plugins for push/nocturn/STC users.
I'm currently working my way through all the waves ones, but an online repository would be awesome for people to share commonly used racks.

[TomViolenz]

Short question:
Can this be used together with the Launchpad (using the great Launchpad95 script) in a manner where I launch my clips in a 8x8 grid (so 8 tracks) with the Launchpad and the Nocturn controls the Volume, Pan, Sends 1-4, Mute, Solo as well as the frequency and Q of an EQ 8 (1 per track) on the track that was last selected by the Launchpad?
(Preferably without Automap)
Thanks in advance for your responses

[alltomorrowsparties]

Short question:
Can this be used together with the Launchpad (using the great Launchpad95 script) in a manner where I launch my clips in a 8x8 grid (so 8 tracks) with the Launchpad and the Nocturn controls the Volume, Pan, Sends 1-4, Mute, Solo as well as the frequency and Q of an EQ 8 (1 per track) on the track that was last selected by the Launchpad?
(Preferably without Automap)
Thanks in advance for your responses

Hi Tom, Once any track is selected you can do ALL the functions listed here....http://stc.wiffbi.com/midi-implementation-chart/

So in your case, assign cc22 (volume) to the first encoder. cc23 (pan) to the next encoder and so on and so forth. (just be mindful to follow ALL the instructions above particularly about assigning your encoders to inc/dec in automap)

The EQ is a bit of a special case as it falls under 'Device control'. STC is never hard wired to any device (that is the beauty of it)

However if you read the last few pages of the forum i linked above, there is an older version of STC where STC always blue hands the first device on a rack. In your case, if this is an EQ, then you should have no problems doing what you described. (note the newer version will blue hand the previously selected device *but* if no device was previously selected, it defaults to selecting the first device anyway......hint whenever you load a song, STC will always default to first device on track)


"preferably without automap"
You shouldn't need Automap at all once it has been set up ie. no unsightly windows popping up with cryptic messages!

Jamie

[re:dream]

Hmm - so if I understand you correctly, STC control the assignment of device focus ('blue hand') letting Push control the macros?

[TomViolenz]

Short question:
Can this be used together with the Launchpad (using the great Launchpad95 script) in a manner where I launch my clips in a 8x8 grid (so 8 tracks) with the Launchpad and the Nocturn controls the Volume, Pan, Sends 1-4, Mute, Solo as well as the frequency and Q of an EQ 8 (1 per track) on the track that was last selected by the Launchpad?
(Preferably without Automap)
Thanks in advance for your responses

Hi Tom, Once any track is selected you can do ALL the functions listed here....http://stc.wiffbi.com/midi-implementation-chart/

So in your case, assign cc22 (volume) to the first encoder. cc23 (pan) to the next encoder and so on and so forth. (just be mindful to follow ALL the instructions above particularly about assigning your encoders to inc/dec in automap)

The EQ is a bit of a special case as it falls under 'Device control'. STC is never hard wired to any device (that is the beauty of it)

However if you read the last few pages of the forum i linked above, there is an older version of STC where STC always blue hands the first device on a rack. In your case, if this is an EQ, then you should have no problems doing what you described. (note the newer version will blue hand the previously selected device *but* if no device was previously selected, it defaults to selecting the first device anyway......hint whenever you load a song, STC will always default to first device on track)


"preferably without automap"
You shouldn't need Automap at all once it has been set up ie. no unsightly windows popping up with cryptic messages!

Jamie

Cool, thanks bunches! Will try this this afternoon if time permits

[alltomorrowsparties]

Hmm - so if I understand you correctly, STC control the assignment of device focus ('blue hand') letting Push control the macros?

I hear of some people using STC with push alright

My guess is that the people who use STC and push use it for this reason....and please do correct me if i'm wrong (i may well be!) but push tends to work in banks of 8 tracks right?....so you might have a instrument page for 8 tracks, a device page for 8 tracks, a pan page for 8 tracks, an aux page for 8 tracks (and another few pages depending on how many auxes you have), an arm page, a level page, an i/o chooser page......and so on....is this correct?

I personally don't like that workflow whereby you are always switching between pages and my guess is the people who use STC with push have a user page set up on push whereby the first 8 encoders on push correspond to, 1-Volume 2-Pan, 3 to 8- auxes, maybe 9- I/O chooser or monitoring mode or whatever. They would probably (i'm still guessing here) also have some buttons/pads assigned to arm, solo, mute, i/o, monitoring mode.... They would then have one more user page assigned to devices/instruments. So 2 pages on push controls EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO THE CURRENT SELECTED TRACK thus avoiding the scenario described above.


Someone from push should really chime in here as i may be completely wrong!

[alltomorrowsparties]

Oh yeah forgot to mention though that the main reason i like the STC workflow is you always know which encoder does what. As in i know without looking that encoder 1 will always be assigned to level.

If i wanted to change the level of track 3 i select it with mouse or cursor and instinctively go for encoder 1.

Were i doing this on a controller that thinks in banks of 8, i'd have to 1-ensure i was in the right bank of 8 tracks then 2-Ensure i have the volume page selected, even at this stage i'm not done navigating, i still have to 3- think about what encoder i need to turn

So by using the mouse/cursor/wheel to select a track, i am cutting down on steps 1 & 2, and i always have consistency in which encoder does what.

i have clearly thought about all this wayyyyyyyyyy too much **but** now I'm kinda glad i did!

[TomViolenz]

Short question:
Can this be used together with the Launchpad (using the great Launchpad95 script) in a manner where I launch my clips in a 8x8 grid (so 8 tracks) with the Launchpad and the Nocturn controls the Volume, Pan, Sends 1-4, Mute, Solo as well as the frequency and Q of an EQ 8 (1 per track) on the track that was last selected by the Launchpad?
(Preferably without Automap)
Thanks in advance for your responses

Hi Tom, Once any track is selected you can do ALL the functions listed here....http://stc.wiffbi.com/midi-implementation-chart/

So in your case, assign cc22 (volume) to the first encoder. cc23 (pan) to the next encoder and so on and so forth. (just be mindful to follow ALL the instructions above particularly about assigning your encoders to inc/dec in automap)

The EQ is a bit of a special case as it falls under 'Device control'. STC is never hard wired to any device (that is the beauty of it)

However if you read the last few pages of the forum i linked above, there is an older version of STC where STC always blue hands the first device on a rack. In your case, if this is an EQ, then you should have no problems doing what you described. (note the newer version will blue hand the previously selected device *but* if no device was previously selected, it defaults to selecting the first device anyway......hint whenever you load a song, STC will always default to first device on track)


"preferably without automap"
You shouldn't need Automap at all once it has been set up ie. no unsightly windows popping up with cryptic messages!

Jamie

Cool, thanks bunches! Will try this this afternoon if time permits

Hey thanks for your help, I managed to set it all up thanks to you and wiffbi!
A problem remains though:
While the rings on the Nocturn are lit, they don't change the lighting when I turn the knob or when I change the track on anything but the device controls (Because they work as "normal" instead Inc/dec).
Didn't you mention that you had that working somehow?

[alltomorrowsparties]

Hey glad it worked out for you!

While the rings on the Nocturn are lit, they don't change the lighting when I turn the knob or when I change the track on anything but the device controls (Because they work as "normal" instead Inc/dec).
Didn't you mention that you had that working somehow?

This is normal as you are calling on the STC script for volumes and pans and calling on the nocturn script for devices. STC does not communicate back to your nocturn the way the novation nocturn default script does. So hence no nice leds (sorry)

i actually kinda like it this way as the philosophy is kinda 'you rarely ever need to look at the nocturn anyway' everything is kinda intuitively there for you without the need for visual feedback

[alltomorrowsparties]

That being said, if you really do need the visual feedback, i am sure there is probably a way around it. I would suggest some combo of STC and the guille script (am i right in saying the guille script has visual feedback as it was made specifically for nocturn??)

[re:dream]

Hmm - so if I understand you correctly, STC control the assignment of device focus ('blue hand') letting Push control the macros?

I hear of some people using STC with push alright

My guess is that the people who use STC and push use it for this reason....and please do correct me if i'm wrong (i may well be!) but push tends to work in banks of 8 tracks right?....so you might have a instrument page for 8 tracks, a device page for 8 tracks, a pan page for 8 tracks, an aux page for 8 tracks (and another few pages depending on how many auxes you have), an arm page, a level page, an i/o chooser page......and so on....is this correct?

I personally don't like that workflow whereby you are always switching between pages and my guess is the people who use STC with push have a user page set up on push whereby the first 8 encoders on push correspond to, 1-Volume 2-Pan, 3 to 8- auxes, maybe 9- I/O chooser or monitoring mode or whatever. They would probably (i'm still guessing here) also have some buttons/pads assigned to arm, solo, mute, i/o, monitoring mode.... They would then have one more user page assigned to devices/instruments. So 2 pages on push controls EVERYTHING PERTAINING TO THE CURRENT SELECTED TRACK thus avoiding the scenario described above.


Someone from push should really chime in here as i may be completely wrong!

No I don't use Push to control STC. I have a little Akai LD8, which is linked to STC and which I use to control most standard session commands for the selected track. I am thinking of using my MPD8 to control sends / loop brackets etc.

Push is completely independent of STC. I tend to use Push as per normal to control whichever instrument is in focus

But controlling the focus is tricky. I find I still have to use the mouse to lock Push on to an instrument or device.

I am trying to understand how/whether STC can help with controlling devices in the track; have only been half-following this discussion so I am not really sure whether this is going to work for me or not.

[TomViolenz]

Hey glad it worked out for you!

After much joy yesterday, I came down pretty hard with a reenforced hatred of Automap
Somehow trying my above described set up with the 8x8 grid of 8 clips in 8 tracks triggered by the launchpad and the volume, pan etc. of the last triggered track (with the launchpad) controlled with the Nocturn only works for a short time before some conflicts between Automap trying to control the Launchpad and the Nocturn make it somewhat unusable! (The pads on the Lauchpad start blinking, I can not use the up and down buttons on the Launchpad to move in my set the grid, some pads don't trigger their pad anymore and an intrusive HUD from Automap pops up, saying that for the Launchpad "Inst. There are no control maps assigned to this group" (WTF I don't care and I don't want those damn Automap control maps in the first place!)
If I could only turn of Automap at least for the Launchpad, but Automap is like a ugly jealous lover, hating on all the beautiful user scripts!
Does anyone have any idea how to solve this?
As it is, it works for a short time, but would be way to unstable for live playing or even studio work.

Edit: wrong quote

[alltomorrowsparties]

That being said, if you really do need the visual feedback, i am sure there is probably a way around it. I would suggest some combo of STC and the guille script (am i right in saying the guille script has visual feedback as it was made specifically for nocturn??)

After much joy yesterday, I came down pretty hard with a reenforced hatred of Automap
Somehow trying my above described set up with the 8x8 grid of 8 clips in 8 tracks triggered by the launchpad and the volume, pan etc. of the last triggered track (with the launchpad) controlled with the Nocturn only works for a short time before some conflicts between Automap trying to control the Launchpad and the Nocturn make it somewhat unusable! (The pads on the Lauchpad start blinking, I can not use the up and down buttons on the Launchpad to move in my set the grid, some pads don't trigger their pad anymore and an intrusive HUD from Automap pops up, saying that for the Launchpad "Inst. There are no control maps assigned to this group" (WTF I don't care and I don't want those damn Automap control maps in the first place!)
If I could only turn of Automap at least for the Launchpad, but Automap is like a ugly jealous lover, hating on all the beautiful user scripts!
Does anyone have any idea how to solve this?
As it is, it works for a short time, but would be way to unstable for live playing or even studio work.

Hi Tom, that sounds awful!

While i understand your contempt for Automap, i don't think it's at fault in this scenario.

In your case you have 3 scripts running at the one time right. Nocturn default using Automap as in/out, Launchpad (some custom script right?) using whatever this is normally set to in/out, and STC using Automap in (but not out)

right?


First thing would be disabling scripts one by one and see which is the guilty party. Doing this should give you a good clue if not a definitive answer.(edit you disable a script by just selecting 'none' sorry if that seems obvious!)



Next thing would be to try re-ordering the scripts. Live processes the scripts in a hierarchy (*i think*) whereby the topmost script in the preferences control panel is processed first. As in any midi data NOT used by the first script is passed on to the next script. Any midi data that IS used by an upper script seems to be swallowed by that script (i could well be wrong bout this see below) and hence will not pass to a lower script. By simply moving around the order of scripts in the MIDI peferences you may resolve the conflict. I'd suggest putting STC last, Nocturn in the middle and launchpad topmost.



i could well be wrong about Abe swallowing notes used by topmost scripts- if this is the case i would guess that one or more MIDI notes are going to 2 or more separate scripts......and whilst one script may be interpreting say midi note 2 ("track solo" on STC script) another may be processing this as 'unsolo' or something. This may be the case. I'd guess that the remedy for this is to find which series of button/buttons seem to cause your setup to mess up. take note of them and then take a look at how those CC/note values are interpreted by the 3 scripts (you'll need to check the MIDI implementation chart of each script-twiddling knobs probably wont cut it!)

You'll find possible culprits in repeated CC/note functionality between scripts.


hope some of this helps