Showing only 128 parameters of a vst????

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:41 pm

That is it!

No depht at all Ableton!

I cannot see more than the 128 first parameters of the vst, no automation curves are accessibles for those last parameters.

Can someone confirm this?

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:48 pm

it has something to do with the amount of parameters some plugins have.
They go from 1 to 10000+.
I think ableton decided on 128 parameters, so that things wouldn't be to confusing.

They made a statement about that once, but i cant find where it was posted.

cheers

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:51 pm

hoffman2k wrote:it has something to do with the amount of parameters some plugins have.
They go from 1 to 10000+.
I think ableton decided on 128 parameters, so that things wouldn't be to confusing.

They made a statement about that once, but i cant find where it was posted.

cheers

Thank you very much for the answer.

128 is just not enough!!!!!!!! It is an arbitrary limit that should not be so low.... that does not make very power user-friendly.....

..I do not like when devs start to think when things are too confusing for me... just give me access please....

...in any case, I bought Live 4 because it was VSTi compatible, but limitations are there. There is a severe oversight concerning the undo history/parameter editing also. (posted too)

Alien Leg · Post by **Alien Leg** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:32 pm

You're absolutely right! I do use VST automation very much and I hate it when I can't access all parameters! Change it, now!

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:20 pm

You know, for some guys with low post you are pretty aggressive towards a company that is actually trying to listen to its user base (unlike some of the bigger ones).

Perhaps a modicum of decorum would be more appreciated???

I mean really.....

Frank Hoffmann · Post by **Frank Hoffmann** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:10 pm

WaveRider wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:it has something to do with the amount of parameters some plugins have.
They go from 1 to 10000+.
I think ableton decided on 128 parameters, so that things wouldn't be to confusing.

They made a statement about that once, but i cant find where it was posted.

cheers
Thank you very much for the answer.

128 is just not enough!!!!!!!! It is an arbitrary limit that should not be so low.... that does not make very power user-friendly.....

..I do not like when devs start to think when things are too confusing for me... just give me access please....

...in any case, I bought Live 4 because it was VSTi compatible, but limitations are there. There is a severe oversight concerning the undo history/parameter editing also. (posted too)

Sorry, there is a misunderstanding. We didn't think it is confusing. It is simply unusable in terms of GUI and management. Live will most likely never support more than 128 parameter for automation in plug-in at the same time.

The problem is that you are limited to just the first 128 parameters in Live 4/5. In a future version you will have the choice and select which parameters you prefer to automate.

Frank

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:46 pm

on a side note, i had mentioned this limitation to Urs Heckman regarding his Filterscape VA synth.
i wanted to automate that synth's filter and could not because there were 100+ parameters of the the Arpeggiator and other parameters that came before the filters and envelopes.

version 1.1 of that synth had changed and now we can access the more usually automated parameters.

So, if you have any synths or FX from smaller developers and you can't access the parameters in Live. see if the developer could put the most used parameters before the least used ones, and release it as an update. u-he did

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:46 pm

Frank Hoffmann wrote: Sorry, there is a misunderstanding. We didn't think it is confusing. It is simply unusable in terms of GUI and management. Live will most likely never support more than 128 parameter for automation in plug-in at the same time.

The problem is that you are limited to just the first 128 parameters in Live 4/5. In a future version you will have the choice and select which parameters you prefer to automate.

Frank

Thank you very much for offering me an answer. I am deeply frustrated at the moment that I cannot control my vsti -not having access to crucial parameters. This is an unexpected surprise that came with Live4. I have vsti "groveboxes" and sequenced synths that I cannot control at all because important fonctions like the muting of an instrument or simply cutoff parameters are unavailable.

I do agree I do not need control of all the parameters, maybe as you suggested choosing witch 128 of the available parameters is a good solution.

It does not take to much imagination to see multiple pages of 128 parameters, or submenus for selecting control curves, witch would provide access to all of them, but a selected set of 128 would be highly workable.

The current situation renders some basic tasks impossible, so please get some solution available as an update for Live4. How can it be vst compatible without that?

Thanks

P.S. after re-reading your post, you seem to imply that it won't be before Live6???

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:47 pm

AdamJay wrote: So, if you have any synths or FX from smaller developers and you can't access the parameters in Live. see if the developer could put the most used parameters before the least used ones, and release it as an update. u-he did

Cool, but the fault lies with Ableton.

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:53 pm

anti-banausic wrote:You know, for some guys with low post you are pretty aggressive towards a company that is actually trying to listen to its user base (unlike some of the bigger ones).

Perhaps a modicum of decorum would be more appreciated???

I mean really.....

Well, it is very unexpected for a 500$ app that claims vsti support. My 65$ eXT can do it as well as all my other vst hosts. They deserve to be kicked in the nuts also....!!!!

I agree that some may do not care, but it is a major problem for me.

kabelton · Post by **kabelton** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:57 am

yes, this IS a big problem, using vst-filter without being able to automate filter cutoff sucks!!!

please, ableton change this within the new release...

kabelton · Post by **kabelton** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:43 pm

hmm...

roby · Post by **roby** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:43 am

AdamJay wrote:on a side note, i had mentioned this limitation to Urs Heckman regarding his Filterscape VA synth.
i wanted to automate that synth's filter and could not because there were 100+ parameters of the the Arpeggiator and other parameters that came before the filters and envelopes.

version 1.1 of that synth had changed and now we can access the more usually automated parameters.

So, if you have any synths or FX from smaller developers and you can't access the parameters in Live. see if the developer could put the most used parameters before the least used ones, and release it as an update. u-he did

Sadly, one of these synths is Waldorf Attack

justin · Post by **justin** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:22 am

linplug albino and some arturia VSTi synths also have the same problem...

choosing which parameters u want to ctrl seems like the way to go. besides, i never use all 128 params anyway... (who does?)

it would be useful to have this sorted out asap cos it is v. inconvenient.
currently have to go back + use Logic =

j

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:44 pm

I use energyXT as a wrapper for any FX with too many parameters, you can choose 128 that you wnt to appear in the host.

It's a nice workaround, don't know of a mac equivalent though, maybe bidule?