A quick question about packs - and samples.

[Ku77er]

Hi folks, I'm fairly new to music production on PC, so please bear with me.

I downloaded my first 'pack' today, and it set me up for coming here to ask a few questions pertaining to their use.

Lets talk specifics here, I downloaded the Vinyl Classics pack by Zero G, and have to say that the samples contained therin are superb!

But using them, and 'samples' in general eludes me somewhat.

Each of the samples in the above pack are categorised into individual songs and when the parts of the song are put together obviously the 'track' sounds great. But forgive my ignorance... How do you go about using these yourself? I mean the drum track is quite nice, and can be used in many a track.. But the bass line for example was written especially for THIS track. So how would I use it myself? How would I use 'samples' in general myself?

I understand about resampling, and re-tuning them to the pitch of a song your working on, but in my year or so of experience I have NEVER got a sample to 'fit' with any track I have ever made. They always have a 'section' thats out of tune, or one note that makes it sound discordant and ugly.

Sweeps, Swells, and just general 'ambience' is often (if not 99% of the time in my case) out of tune, and no amount of Transposing and fine tuning will ever bring it into tune.

I am an experienced musician, 20+ years, and I feel that I SHOULD be able to do this but I struggle so much in using samples in any way whatsoever. I must have a million of them, I have never used a single one in any production I have ever made because I simply dont get 'how'

Can anyone give me an idea about what it is I'm overthinking here? Obviously the mistake is mine, but filling in the missing knowledge is impossible and I need to finally ask...

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated, has anyone reading this been in my position? Still in my position?

Thanks,

Kutter

[Stromkraft]

Lets talk specifics here, I downloaded the Vinyl Classics pack by Zero G, and have to say that the samples contained therin are superb!

But using them, and 'samples' in general eludes me somewhat.

Each of the samples in the above pack are categorised into individual songs and when the parts of the song are put together obviously the 'track' sounds great. But forgive my ignorance... How do you go about using these yourself?

The basic lesson here is to learn to discern between Samples, Clips containing MIDI data, Racks and MIDI effects as well as Clips containing Audio data. It's all in the manual you know.

As I don't have this installed myself I'd say that barring this pack has a completely different structure than "Konkrete Breaks" for example, the fast way is simply with your mind set to "explore":

• Ignore the demo songs in the pack.
• Use the clips playing breaks as ground work for your own songs
• Use the racks and make your clips
• Slice the samples yourself with "Slice to new MIDI track"
• Dissect the samples and use them as basic waveforms in instrument patches in Sampler or other instruments that can take samples.
• Explore different options when slicing, including making your own slice presets perhaps inspired by the ones you try.
• Affect the timing, order of the MIDI of the clips, for example by playing these on a keyboard and recording new clips
• Use effects and different settings on the loop per slice to really change its sound and the impact it makes

Use all of this and more that you can think of to build a basis for your own tracks that you record your other performances to, as a musician .
That's what was on top of my head.

[Ku77er]

Thanks for the quick reply Strom, I have tried several of your techniques but always they fall flat, I guess it's just my inexperience... Thats fine, as long as I know, I can get better.

I did however want to quiz you about something you said...

The basic lesson here is to learn to discern between Samples, Clips containing MIDI data, Racks and MIDI effects as well as Clips containing Audio data.

While I understand what you mean here 100% a further question beckons.

The pack I'm talking about presents its content in the form of what it calls 'construction kits'. Perhaps the title is misleading but for example.. The first 'construction kit' contains:

Drums
Bass
Percusion
Guitar
Piano
Synth and
Strings.

Each of these has a 'long' sample in them, a full drum pattern, a full bass line etc. When put together they make a reat sounding 70's disco track...

While I understand what your saying about choping them up, changing the timing etc...

Why do the makers of these pack present the (in this case) 'construction sets' when all they really do is put the samples together in the form of a full song. No one is EVER going to use this as a basis for a song because they didnt write ANY of it.. So why bother?

I'm so confused by samples and the way they are cut, presented, looped... I guess I have lot to learn.

Kutter

[ANONRSS]

are you a musician firstly? then you would know that if things aren't in the same key that a dissonant tone will occur. (the ugliness you speak of)

Find what keys your samples are in- link them up to a song you're creating in the same key. they will never sound off or ugly if you do this.

[Ku77er]

I actually thought of something that emphasizes what I mean here in my original post.

Lets say i have a great drum track sample.. LOVE the beat, love the drive etc...

That 'sample' is only 20 seconds long. Looped, thats gonna make a pretty monotonous song. So how would I go about using it? It has no fills, no 'human' quality to it, no accents.. Do you see what I mean?

Am I to 'slice' it, and them play it myself in a different beat configuration? If so, what about Toms? There are none in the loop itself, so how do I go about making toms of my own sound sonicly correct?

And further to this why is it worth it? Why not just program drums myself?

Apply this to everything, Bass, Keys, Ambience... Why would I use sample when they 'seem' like 10 times as much work as making my own?

I really hope you understand where I'm coming from.. I dont want to sound like an idiot, just someone with I hope valid questions.

Oh and incidentally, I have read the manual. Cover to Cover.

Kutter

[ANONRSS]

I actually thought of something that emphasizes what I mean here in my original post.

Lets say i have a great drum track sample.. LOVE the beat, love the drive etc...

That 'sample' is only 20 seconds long. Looped, thats gonna make a pretty monotonous song. So how would I go about using it? It has no fills, no 'human' quality to it, no accents.. Do you see what I mean?

Am I to 'slice' it, and them play it myself in a different beat configuration? If so, what about Toms? There are none in the loop itself, so how do I go about making toms of my own sound sonicly correct?

And further to this why is it worth it? Why not just program drums myself?

Apply this to everything, Bass, Keys, Ambience... Why would I use sample when they 'seem' like 10 times as much work as making my own?

I really hope you understand where I'm coming from.. I dont want to sound like an idiot, just someone with I hope valid questions.

Oh and incidentally, I have read the manual. Cover to Cover.

Kutter

the use of sampling is just another way to fill the pool with water.

most of instrumental samples were used using VSTs such as massive, sylenth, nexus omnisphere- etc. most of the drum tones were done the same way.
without the software there would be no samples.

to get all of that software would require an insane amount of money then to master the vst tone would require a number of hours.

At first i used a lot of samples to get ideas down, then over time i bought the vsts and learned how to master them. now i make and distribute my own samples packs to whoever wants to pay for it, lol.

in short- definitely make your own beats and melodies, etc if you can, but if you're in a stump there is nothing wrong with sampling. every radio artist does this. EVERY ONE.

[Stromkraft]

Am I to 'slice' it, and them play it myself in a different beat configuration? If so, what about Toms? There are none in the loop itself, so how do I go about making toms of my own sound sonicly correct?

And further to this why is it worth it? Why not just program drums myself?

You can skip using loops if you feel you can record everything yourself. That people use them is typically about the producer not having the means to record live drums, not having a drummer, getting a specific sound or not being good enough at playing drums yourself if the first is an option. If one or several of these are out then loops can work. If you work the MIDI data, playing it or programming it, not one loop playback need to be like any other. You can also slice loops per frequency, which is very common, mixing different loops with each other.

You can also make layers with dedicated drum synths and the loop to make it more "dirty" in the sound. You can get the same with some mix work, but using a loop saves time for getting to "that" sound.

I prefer to make my own drums in dedicated drum synths or in any synth, played or programmed, but sometimes I layer my drums with a loop or multiple loops and fuse the sounds together with EQ and dynamic processing. I do like the unpredictability on the sound I can get with that.

Typically though that's with velocity layered one-shot samples and drum synths and not very often with a full loop. I let myself be inspired by loops, but I seldom use them in the track. I don't want it to sound like a loop nor do I want anyone being able to spot the loop necessarily. I do analyze drummers, trying to understand how they play and why I like it.

Apply this to everything, Bass, Keys, Ambience... Why would I use sample when they 'seem' like 10 times as much work as making my own?

For the reasons already mentioned and in your case you don't if that is true. Go for it!

[Ku77er]

Your replies are giving me clarity, I always suspected they were for the folks without the means/time to do these things themselves and I find working with the soft synths and sampler programs in Ableton and Komplete 10 liberating. I LOVE Massive, FM8 winds me up a bit, but one step at a time eh?

I am very lucky to have kitted myself out with all I could need, I am a musician first as I have pointed out and have guitar and Bass and even a TD9 Vdrum kit that I am trying to learn to play. (Drums HAS to be the hardest of all instruments to play well!). I am not a drummer, but over the xmas period I invested in Superior drummer 2 for 75% off normal price, and the drum tracks you can make from that are.. Well, as real as it gets... (Just such a shame I intend to make EDM mostly LOL) I have Komplete 10, and I spent some time training in sound design at PointBlank, so I think I'm off to a good start.

Clearing up the 'sample' issue was vital for me because I felt like it was getting in the way... Almost like I 'should' be using them but unsure how.

Anyway, I thank you again, your time is appreciated. Be sure I will put your advice to good use making 'my own' music.

Kutter