Ableton's Groove settings/Timing

[Shane Collins]

Im unsure about the Timing settings in Live's Groove engine. If the global amount is set to 100% and the timing set to 50% with Bass at 1/16th does this mean that instead of each individual hit moving to the nearest 16th note it will move 50% of the way (when you calculate the distance from its original note position to the nearest 16th?

[Stromkraft]

Im unsure about the Timing settings in Live's Groove engine. If the global amount is set to 100% and the timing set to 50% with Bass at 1/16th does this mean that instead of each individual hit moving to the nearest 16th note it will move 50% of the way (when you calculate the distance from its original note position to the nearest 16th?

It's not "each individual hit" but every other of the groove resolution used. Well, typically.

You can check in detail what the groove is doing to a clip by committing it. I also find it very useful to put the groove in an existing MIDI instrument and hear it clearly in the mix. That will be at 100% then.

I'm pretty sure that the 50% is how much of the groove is applied, so at 50% those notes that are moved in time are moved half way to the position it would have with this groove template set at 100% timing. Quantizing in the groove before applying groove also affect the exact position the moved notes end up at.

Try to apply and commit different percentages on multiple copies of the same clip and I'm sure things will become more clear on how this works.

[Steve Glen]

global groove amount is the global scaler for all grooves
-timing is the scaler for the groove
--quantize is the grid quantization scaler for the groove

1st Live acts on quantize, then timing, then global.

[frankknuck]

global groove amount is the global scaler for all grooves
-timing is the scaler for the groove
--quantize is the grid quantization scaler for the groove

1st Live acts on quantize, then timing, then global.

Thanks for that clarification.

I get this part, the thing that has always confused me is how the grooves are applied to clips where the midi data isn't 100% quantized. In other words, if I play in a midi performance which is off the grid, and I apply groove, but I don't set quantize to 100%, and then have the timing affecting the unquantized midi data, is this an intended use? It's super confusing to understand what's going on in that case for me.

With certain hip-hop style drum patterns, the timing is more close to a 16th triplet grid than a straight 16th grid, so there's always going to be notes that live's quantize will pull in the wrong direction because they're more than 50% past the grid point where they should land if you were writing in the notes in midi instead of playing them in. Does this make sense? So if i want to apply a slight bit of corrective timing to a midi performance like this with a MPC groove that's like 70% quantized, it seems like Live is going to interpret certain notes incorrectly because they'll be so far off the grid.

So I guess what I'm getting at is, is Live's groove templates not really very useful for clips that are not 100% quantized (or very close to that) to begin with?

[Stromkraft]

global groove amount is the global scaler for all grooves
-timing is the scaler for the groove
--quantize is the grid quantization scaler for the groove

1st Live acts on quantize, then timing, then global.

if I play in a midi performance which is off the grid, and I apply groove, but I don't set quantize to 100%, and then have the timing affecting the unquantized midi data, is this an intended use? It's super confusing to understand what's going on in that case for me.…

So I guess what I'm getting at is, is Live's groove templates not really very useful for clips that are not 100% quantized (or very close to that) to begin with?

Yes, that's an intended use. You don't have to use 100% timing, right?
I don't use grooves on complete drum patterns. I use different ones per drum voice/ instrument. If it's a full loop I'll slice those per frequency too.

Your questions are very interesting, but I don't have the detailed answers. We should both get busy experimenting what happen with what patterns, by analyzing, applying and committing. The last makes it clear what has happened.